Tresspassers and Cable Gates.

raptor · Mar 30, 2002

patrickg,

Why the rant and tirade? You do with your place as you see fit, and let the next do with his as he sees fit. I'll let you in on a little secret. There's this forum, and there's the real world, and it don't matter a hill of beans what anyone here says, thinks, does, believes, or proclaims to be gospel. Read it, get something out of it if you can, and move on.

Terry Olendorff
Saint Charles, Missouri

RanchMan · Mar 30, 2002

Kerr -

We can all go around continually and point to "I said" and "he said" (I've done this too - so I'm not "picking on you" per se.)

There seems to be some confusion about what you meant in your original post. There have been several "interpretations" on both sides of the issue, but instead of guessing/assuming, I thought it might be the best thing to go "directly to the source."

Again, in the interest of clarity, I thought questions with "Yes" or "No" answers might help rectify this. So, here they are....

1) Do you mind when people use your property without asking permission?

2) Do you think that as long as they (people mentioned in #1) don't "hurt" anything (i.e. litter, poach, tear stuff up, etc.) that it is "OK" for them do go on other people's property too?

3) Do you believe that those without power or wealth "deserve" to use property that they do not pay for or maintain without asking?

4) Do you think that people who do not want others on their property (for whatever reason) are inherently "bad" people?

5) Do you believe that people referred to in question #4 are being unreasonable?

6) Do you believe that the act of trespassing (regardless of property damage or not) should be a criminal act.

All of these are Y/N questions and I'm not trying to "entrap" you so I can come back with more arguments. I'm also not trying to come across in a condescending tone either. All I am trying to do is hear your opinion from you, and not interpret it myself or get someone else’s interpretation.

Wingnut · Mar 30, 2002

The question I have is "where can one buy one of these good neighbors"?
I'm really starting to remember why I liked Alberta so much ... when your nearest neighbor is 5 miles away ... there's not much they can do to annoy you.

Kerr ... I ain't gonna flame you, my friend ... one wonderful thing about America is you're allowed to have and put forth any opinion you want. My opinion is that one great American - Robert Frost - proved he was a very wise man when he noted that good fences make good enighbors.
I personally have no problem with people who stop by to ask if they can enter my land ... I've had hikers, forestry people, game wardens, mushroom, nut and berry pickers, and even hunters ask ... I usually refused the hunters as I enjoyed seeing the coyotes and deer wander around in the moonlight ... but I always advised them where they could go where they would be able to hunt (and find game).
Now ... the people who thought that they had a right to climb over my fences without permission and cut trees, cut firewood, pick blueberries, or rustle a calf or two (yes, it did happen) ... well, you can likely understand that I didn't really care if they were scruffy, in need, lonely or just plain stupid. They were (and are) trespassers, criminals and otherwise vile people. And I don't recall a single one of them offering to help pay my taxes, repair the fences they cut, replant the trees they stole (for Christmas! for goodness sake) or invite me for a meal of stolen beef. So I'll just keep my opinion that trespassers - especially those that cut fences or trash gates right beside the "no trespassing please" signs - are criminals that should be locked up. No wait ... then my tax dollars would go to feed them. Ok ... back to my old joke sign ... "Trespassers will be shot ... survivors will be prosecuted"

RanchMan · Mar 30, 2002

I know you are talking to patrickg, but I just couldn't help myself. My response is NOT meant to be a "smart-aleck" one, but simply give my P.O.V....

Why the rant and tirade? You do with your place as you see fit, and let the next do with his as he sees fit. 

I believe that as well - but what appeared to be happening was that Kerr was telling us what to do with with our property. I can't guarantee that this is what he meant, but at least that's the way I interpreted it.

I'll let you in on a little secret. There's this forum, and there's the real world, ...

I disagree. True, there are some that participate in the forum simply as a fun way to "mix it up" or "fib" for entertainment, but others of us post real stories, give real opinions, and have real beliefs. So more or less, this forum is based on "the real world."

...and it don't matter a hill of beans what anyone here says, thinks, does, believes, or proclaims to be gospel. 

Again, people may be influenced more than you apear to think by reading things on this post. When people are influenced, they may take action. When they take action, things can change. When things change, others may be affected directly. So, yea, it does matter. It could be something like changing how they vote, to starting a "grass roots" effort, to sending letters to someone, etc.

Read it, get something out of it if you can, and move on. 

So, are you saying that if you disagree about something, you shouldn't voice your opinion? E.g. no conflict = better discussion forum? Some of us don't believe that but believe that there is a time & place for real debate - it can be fun, it is often frustrating, but it's hard just to not do anything when something you believe strongly in is being, at least as you perceive it, attacked.

Like other posts, I have assumed your position on some things here. I fully admit I may have misinterpreted them, but that was my take. If I misunderstood where you were coming from, please let me know.

raptor · Mar 30, 2002

Here's how I feel, and what I believe.

I read what people say, sometimes I agree, sometimes I don't. No need for me to get in an argument with 'em, or pat 'em on the back. I make up MY own mind, and live with the consequences of my choices - hopefully well thoughtout, intelligent ones. Either way I'm responsible for what I believe, and what I do, period.

Now you tell me, are you really going to change the way you feel about someone trespassing on your land, because of what someone else says or thinks? I sure as he!! hope not!

patrickg · Mar 30, 2002

Gee Terry, for a falconer you sure are sensitive. If you think any of my last few posts are tirades, you really do need to get out in public more. Which part bothered you the most, the stance I took in favor of private ownership of land, being strongly anti-tresspass, or was it something else that you took too personal? I might state my case strongly or even on the edge of inflamatory by some folks standards but I am honestly curious what in particular offended you. It is through constructive feedback that we can improve.

I don't think you should be so hasty to put down the folks who trade and share thoughts and ideas via this forum. I think I have learned a lot from many people here sometimes from the very folks with whom I, at first, thought I had the greatest differences.

G'day

Patrick

RanchMan · Mar 30, 2002

I make up MY own mind, and live with the consequences of my choices.... 

Fair enough. My perspective is fairly close, although when I make up my mind on something, I use datapoints that not only include true "data" (e.g. numbers, history, etc.) but opinions/perspective's of others. I don't think that this means I am "wishy-washy" or anything like that, but instead I realize although I may know some things, I KNOW that I don't know everything, and would like to learn from others.

Now you tell me, are you really going to change the way you feel about someone trespassing on your land, because of what someone else says or thinks? I sure as he!! hope not! 

On this subject - No - It would take a LOT to change my mind - your hopes are intact! But, this is a "hot button" topic for me. I suspect that there might be someone in this thread who has altered their opinion a bit one way or the other based on the responses that have been flying back & forth because they haven't been so "dyed in the wool" on this subject.

Perhaps someone may take trespassers a bit more seriously after hearing some of the horror stories of others - or, perhaps someone will let more "scruffy kids" on their place. So, in this respect, I think that it has probably been useful.

Other subjects, well, honestly, yea - I might be convinced to change my stance. Can't guarantee it 'cause I'd need to hear evidence one way or the other first.

patrickg · Mar 30, 2002

Wingnut, They can't be bought. I rather suspect you will get them through synergy coupled with good fortune. As far as the good fortune goes, I've always found that the harder I work the luckier I get. Yes, that Frost quote is priceless and of course, one of my favorites. I assume you have seen the Dell computer commercial with the young guy in his dad's car talking to a computer shopping neighbor on the sidewalk.

You say this but they comment on that, its enough to make your head spin! Yet another equine anatomical mystery.

Gee, just when you would think it was safe to be FOR the rule of law and respect for the rights of legal law abiding property owners.

My sign wording (not installed yet but thinking about it) Caution, severe tire damage possible! Your tire, my rifle!

Patrick

Anonymous Poster · Mar 30, 2002

patrickg:

I miss your point/comparison about being a falconer, and I assume overly sensitive. Does one exclude the other?

My original post, was a simple statement; what does it really matter what someone else espouses about trespassing; interplanetary travel; sugarless gum; young Elvis or old Elvis stamps? Seemed to me you just wanted to be the king of the sandbox with your dissertation.

Terry Olendorff
Saint Charles, Missouri

Anonymous Poster · Mar 31, 2002

...Some people will argue over the time of day...

Yes Sir-ree...Bob.... seem to be doing alot of that lately on TBN... /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Kerr... by the way... your watch is off by 2 seconds... better get it fixed... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif