Truss for pole building question..

[jwstewar]

Didn't see your post until I had replied to Chucko. The drywall is the way I'm leaning because of cost and like you said fire and whiteness ability. The father-in-law OSB his walls/ceiling in his. Makes it decent if you want to hang stuff on the wall. Don't have to be as concerned where the studs are - obviously if doing something heavy yets, but if just want to put some hooks up for rakes and the what-no, not a big where it fits, not where a stud is.

BTW, how have you been feeling? Haven't talked to you in awhile.

 

[Inspector507]

Doing great Jim..........Thanks for asking /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[mopower440]

well, the trusses are on the way to my house right now, but i have a question, ok, i will be installing the 2x4 purlins by laying them on top of the trusses, now, after i get to the end of a 2x4 purlin, do i but the next one up against that one and keep going? If so, then that means that the 2 2x4's will meet in the center of the top cord of the truss and it is only 1 1/2" wich means there will only actually be 3/4" to nail each 2x4 purlin to, what about that? Thought about staggering the purlins, but then the screw pattern will be off..hope you all understand what im trying to say here..hard to say it without drawing a picture..lol..
ok, trusses are here, i got 4 pages of bracing instructions but have no idea wich ones to use..the instructions are for 2' centers, i had these built to be used on 4' centers, the building is 24 foot widex30 feet long, i will be using a total of 9 trusses, one on each post and one in between each post, i need to figure out exactly how to brace them on 4' centers..also, does the bracing just get nailed to the bottom side of the top cords and the bottom cords or is there bracing that goes in the webbing of the trusses also?
thanks

 

[plumboy]

Break your pulins on the center of a truss ,youll have to trim a little off each 2x4.

 

[mopower440]

Thats what im talking about, but is that safe since each purlin will only have 3/4"n of the top chord of the truss to nail to?

 

[plumboy]

Yea it will be fine.dont nail straight down at the edge of each purlin but rather an angle about an inch from the edge that way you get into the meat of the truss.

 

[Glenn9643]

You should also lay out your purlins so that the "splices" fall on different trusses. In other words, stagger the places where the purlins join at the truss so you'll have a solid purlin across each truss at several points.

 

[Evasive1]

Yes, 3/4" is enough.
As Plumboy said you will have to trim each 2x4 a little since they are usually longer than the stated length. Since you are laying out on 4' centers I suggest getting 16' 2x4 for your purlins for better strength and stagger your purlins so that they all do not end on the same truss like stated above.

On 24 foot trusses you will want to put a brace on the web 8' from each end running your length of the building and a brace on the 12' center on the top of the bottom cord running the length of the building. The last brace will be the one from the outside corners of the building at a 45 degree angle to the center of the truss, this should catch the 3 outside trusses.
Let the fun begin! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[mopower440]

evasive1, can you explain a little more or got a pic? Remember, im new at this, just want to make sure this thing is SAFE, i assume i would leave the temporary bracing up even after the roof is done and thenit becomes permanent bracing?? I got some good drawings from this websitehttp://www.stormsurvival.homestead.com/Hurricane_Truss_Bracing.html but the bracing drawings i got with the trusses are different, for instance, on the bracing on the website, they show one continuous lateral brace on each side of the peak about halfway down, then the diagonals on each end, ok, on the drawings i got with the trusses, they also show that lateral in the center, but also at the top and along the bottom, to make for 3 laterals on each side of the peak, plus the diagonals, ,, i would like to do it just like on the link above, but wonder if that would be ok since it differs from the ones on my drawings? also, on the diagonals on the website listed above, the 'point' is towards the gables, on my drawings, the widest part is towards the gables instead, complete opposite.? help!! I got friends coming to help me put them up tommorrow..

 

[JerryG]

Does the top of the truss not have a 4" or so wide angle that the perlins sit on? I have used a lot of truss, but they have all had an angle for the perlins.

 

[Evasive1]

Mopower,
When I would have a framing job inspected the inspector would ask for the truss plans to make sure we braced the trusses like the engineer intended. So the plans that came with the trusses should take precidence over some plans you found on the web.
Having said that it sounds like they just sent you generic bracing instructions anyway with the trusses.
The link you showed is pretty typical for bracing but is designed for a larger building with trusses on 2' centers with wood sheathing for the deck.
Your trusses will be on 4' centers, purlins every 2' across the top with metal making the top really tight. What we need to worry about is the bottom cords and web members.
To tie the bottom of the trusses together run a 2x4 in the center of the truss the length of the building accoss all the trusses on top of the bottom board of the truss. This will tie the middle of the building together so that all the trusses will be one in the middle.
8' from the end of the truss you will run bracing the length of the building on the "compression web members".
From each corner of the building run a 2x4 from the outside corner at a 45 degree angle to the middle of the truss. Your trusses are 4' apart, 24' long so this will end up exactly on the 3rd truss in. Make sure to nail the board to the trusses it crosses over. A 45 degree angle is the strongest angle for bracing so this will dramatically increase the strength of your building.
The last brace will be from the top of the last truss at a 45 degree angle to the bottom of the 3rd truss in. Do this on both ends. (half of an x) If the mood sets you right go ahead and run a brace from the top of the 3rd truss in to the bottom of the outside truss like pictured in you link.
Once you get your trusses standing with the purlins on top you will see that it still has a little shake to it. It will be obvious where the braces will need to go and each brace you put up you can feel the building tighten up.
If in doubt throw in a brace!!! 2x4's are cheap compared to hauling the whole thing off after it blew down!!!
Sorry this was long but it is hard to put in words what I can see in my head!!!
Best of luck!!!!

 

[mopower440]

Evasive1, ok, yes, the instructions that came with the trusses are generic, If im understanding what your saying right, your saying to do it just like the link i posted?? If i do that will the inspector fail it because its not like in the drawings that came with my trusses?

 

[Evasive1]

Yes and no.

Depends on your inspector. I had a good relation with all my inspectors. But I have heard stories of inspectors not passing a project if it did not "exactly" match plans, especially if they did not like the builder. One of my inspectors would make me bring the card to him so he would not have to even get out of his truck because he had seen so many of my jobs and knew how **** I was about following the design.
The link you posted was also a "generic" design. The suggestiions I made were based on the size of your building and what braces I have seen designed for something that size. In your earlier post you talked about the "diagonals" and which way they pointed. In your case with the span being fairly small. You will only have one side of the diagonal going from the very outside corner of the first truss to the middle (12 foot center) of the third truss in. Do this on all corners. So if you were looking down on the building you would have a arrow head pointing to the center of the 3rd truss in. One on each end of the building. (The green boards on your link and the "arrow" will be pointing the other way instead of the outside) Your link has two "arrows" on each end of the building. Since your building is 24 foot wide and you always want to strive for a 45 degree angle on bracing you will only need one arrow to accomplish the same thing. As far as bracing on the bottom of the top cord (red boards in your link) you will not need this for a pole barn because the purlins every 2 feet and then the metal attached to this is really strong.
So in summary!!! Your bracing should look alot like the green and blue bracing on the link with the exception of the green having only one "arrow" and not the two they show. I would put lateral bracing in the center of the trusses and 8' from the ends I would put that lateral brace that is 8' from the end of the truss on the actual compression member (The inside boards of the truss that are at an angle) and not the bottom cord of the truss. Find a point 8' from the end of the truss and a cross board midway between the top and the bottom of the truss to attach to and run it the length of the building.

Hopefully it will be nice for you today and the wind will stay calm. It is really easy once you get going. Just make sure to measure between trusses before attaching your bracing to keep them evenly spaced.

(Measure twice cut and nail once and if are on the roof clock out when you roll past the gutter.)

Best of luck!!!

 

[mopower440]

Thanks evasive, wondering if the building inspector would say anything about not using the lateral bracing on the bottom of the top chord because of the fact it has perlins, wondering if he will say anything because they are in the instructions? also, you know those generic drawings that came with my trusses, ok, i found them on this link http://www.tpinst.org/my_pubs_hib.html these are the ones that came with mine, the top pic..also, do i make the arrow head diagonals on the bottomside of the top chord since the perlins will be on the outside?
Now for the BIG problem..i had the whole crew here today and didnt get anything done, we cant figure out how to get to the truss once its up to apply the bracing..lol..in other words, we know how to get them up there and the peak raised up, but from there on out we dont know how to get up that high in the center of the building to start attaching braces to hold the trusses up, i dont have a tractor or lift or anything like that, only a 8ft. stepladder, so we didnt want to hurt anyone so we just decided to wait and find out what to do, now, we did get the gable truss up but that was because we left the center poles tall so the truss would rest against them and i screwd the truss to all 4 poles, but as far as the next one and next one and so on, what do we do? Obviously we dont want o just crawl around in the trusses while someone holds them up to attach the braces, not safe, so can you guys tell me the secret on how to do this if you dont have a scaffold or a manlift or anything to get yourself up to the peaks of the trusses to start bracing them? I was thinking that towards the peak area would be the first parts to start bracing up, but how to get up there is the question..?

 

[Spencer]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now for the BIG problem..i had the whole crew here today and didnt get anything done, we cant figure out how to get to the truss once its up to apply the bracing..lol..in other words, we know how to get them up there and the peak raised up, but from there on out we dont know how to get up that high in the center of the building to start attaching braces to hold the trusses up )</font>

I put up at least 75 percent of my trusses by myself (and my tractor). The attached picture shows the jig that I made up to use to brace the loose truss to the previousely fastened truss. In my next reply I will attach a drawing that I made to give you a better idea of what I am talking about.

 

[Spencer]

As you can see that picture is not too clear so I made up a drawing and attached it to this post. First off let me say that this may not be the safest way to accomplish the task. Please don't use my method if you feel it is unsafe. I started out by wrapping a strap around the loose truss and pulling it toward the fixed truss. I would pull it until it was almost upright and then I clamped the strap to the fixed truss. It is important not to pull it too far towards you because if you pull it until it is straight up and down it could fall towards you. Then I took my jig and I placed it over top of the loose truss. Then I would pull my jig and the loose truss back towards the fixed truss. I would then clamp the jig to the fixed truss.

Edit starts here:
I should mention that I had my trusses on 24" centers. I made my jig for that exact spacing.

 

[Egon]

One way I have done it by myself with 28 foot 4 in 12 trusses.

Lift all the trusses onto the walls and let them hang upside down.

Put up a vertical brace for one end truss.
Rotate the next truss to a vertical position.
Nail a 2x4 or some such across the two trusses as high as you can reach from the wall. This will hold them vertically.
Rotate next truss and nail another long board accross the three trusses and extending well past them.
Keep rotating trusses and nailing them to the board. Will have to use more than one board.
When all trusses are up Make sure the first one is set square and verical. Then go down the line doing the same for the other trusses. When all are aligned check again for squareness. One can use a sheet or two plywood as a big square when starting out
Now you can install the interior bracing for the trusses.

And then its time for the roofing. And then I find that after all my checking things are just enough out of square to make blue air.

Egon

 

[Evasive1]

No, my money says he will not say anything. The thing with inspectors is not to talk, except yes sir, no sir, (or Mrs. as is pretty common anymore). Of course I would not throw those generic plans in his face asking if it is okay that you left them out. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
What Spencer suggested works really well, they even sell those, but you have to be able to reach the top of the truss. Those would not benefit you a whole lot on your 4' centers and long reach till it comes time to put on your purlins to keep the spacing even.
I have never mentioned hurricane straps. These are more than likely required by code anyway and this kind is the best, okay personal opinion, please don't flame me guys.Simpson H Seismic and Hurricane Ties . See the picture on the right how they are a diamond. This helps to hold the truss once you stand them up till you can secure them. Make sure you use "joist hanger" nails since they have a much higher strength. These can all be found at Lowes or Home Depot. (simpson strong tie part #n10 1 1/2" 9 gauge hot dip galvanized. Also using a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the nail in that tight spot will save your fingers) Also I saw you mentioned screwing the truss to the uprights. Go back and put some 16d nails in there!

Okay, this is how we stand our smaller trusses when we are not renting a crane.
First attach a 2x4 8' to the top of the truss you have up (it will be dangling so you will have to support it till it is ready.)
Lift the next truss up on each end of the building and let it hang upside down. Using a push pole push the truss top up to its upright position with people on the ends to help steady it. You will have to lift up the 2x4 8' so it is on top of the truss you are lifting. The weight of the 2x4 8' will help to hold the truss as you are lifting in place. Once standing lift the truss into the simpson hurricane straps and nail. (oh yea, place the hurricane straps up first, remember to "burn" 3/4" on your layout to get the center of the truss on 4' centers.) Someone will have to continue to support the truss while it is being nailed. If you put the 2x4 8' where you can reach it with ladders you can now nail it and this truss is now in temporary position ready for the next truss to be lifted, hurricane strapped and the 2x4 accross the top supporting the top. once you get past your 8' board across the top (2 trusses) attach another one to the truss you just fininshed. Of course you can use longer than 8' boards, just thought this would be easier for the first time. This board across the top can stay there until you start putting on the purlins then it can be removed. All other bracing we talked about in all the posts is part of the fininshed building. Your first truss you go to stand will be the hardest since the 8' board on top will want to just droop to the ground. Once you have 2 trusses up you can go with longer boards that will span the 2 standing trusses and hang out catching the next trusses you stand.
Once all the trusses are standing with the hurricane straps and temporary board across the top holding them you can start at the bottom and work your way up with the purlins. The purlins will act as a step ladder working your way up but please keep your weight on the trusses and not on the purlins for safety.
I had the perfect framer body, short and stocky. I always had to be the one at the peaks putting on top braces as the crane dropped them in. My best worker would go up there with me and he was really tall and skinny so between the two of us we could usually get it worked out. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[mopower440]

Duane, ok, we did get the one gable end truss up, only because we had the 2 inner poles still tall enough to nail and screw the truss to, so you are saying next to stand the next truss up and nail a 2x4 from it to the gable one we already have up, and keep going on down the line till there all up with 2x4 nailed to the tops, right? Ok, if thats right, thats what we were going to do yesterday BUT i keep reading everywhere how that is unsafe because its only one brace accross one side holding all these trusses up and that sometimesthey will just fold like dominoes and hurt or kill someone..thats why we got scared and stopped with the gable up only, like i said, thats what i was planning on doing was to set the next one up and attach it to the gable truss using a 2x4 accross the top, then the next and the next, but then got to thinking, "ok, once they are all up and nothing holding them but theis one lateral brace, there is no way im crawling up on a truss to start nailing purlins on with only that one brace running on it," so thats when i figured we needed something like a huge stepladder or something to place between the trusses to stand on to start nailing the purlins up rather than standing on the truss itself and nailing the purlins on, so we would still do exactly like you said, only not be standing on the truss when nailing the purlins on, whats your thoughts? am i being overly nervous or what? I called about renting a scaffold that would put me up high enough, but its narrow and this would be on a dirt floor, so, i dont know.. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Egon]

You can nail 2x4 on both sides. For stability just make a diamond on three trusses or nail on a sheet of plywood.

Egon