Trying to decide on wheel spacers width

   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width
  • Thread Starter
#41  
You're not going to tear these spacers up. If you do, you've DONE something. They are beefy, solid 6061 T6 aluminum.

On the axle bearing issue, adding width between the wheels does place additional load on the bearings, no way around that.

Think of it this way.....turn 2 coffee cups upside down on the counter. Set them 1" apart and lay a pencil across the top. Push down on the pencil with your thumb hard as you can, you aint gonna break it. Now set those cups to 8" between them and push on the pencil, you can break it easy. Same concept.

How much shorter wheel bearing life will result? Who knows. I'd say it all depends on how you use your tractor. If you're just mowing grass with it all the time on a smooth surface, just on slope you may never wear them out. If you use your tractor off road, in the woods, over rough ground using FEL, rear blades and are rough on the tractor, driving faster than you should etc, you're gonna beat stuff up.....but you still would without the spacers, so really....who knows exactly. I'd rather replace wheel bearings than roll my tractor and/or get crippled or killed in the process.


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   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #42  
Hi Dieselcrawler,

I agree with you there will be some degree of additional wear and tear on the wheel bearings. I also think it will be minimal. I also think whatever added cost to maintain, or replace the bearings earlier than otherwise, is worth it. I'm a new guy with tractors - I don't have the comfort level other owners have developed on sidehills. I've been out bush hogging about 7 acres of hillside twice in the last month (I'm doing it more often to try and kill off the hedge apple and honey locust tree saplings that sprout like weeds) and have put 26 hours on my new Kioti (nickname...Wile E...after the Roadrunner character). The straight up and down goes fine, but turning the tractor is fraught with perceived peril. I have to turn it around to back the bush hog into the edge of the forest both at the bottom and the top of the hills. I am hoping that 4 inch spacers all around will substantially increase the constantly forming and decaying margin of safety I currently enjoy!

Best,

Rhino
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #43  
Hello All,

Did some more discussing of getting spacers for the front wheels with my dealer, who based on his experience seeing front axle problems occasionally crop up even without spacers did not recommend them. And I reread the Kioti DK 40 manual and found the sentence that specifically said altering the tread width of the front wheels will void the warranty - so for now I'm going with just 4 inch rear spacers. They should be here in a few weeks and I'll have my dealer install them at my 50 hour service. I can't wait to see how they affect the stability of the tractor and I'll post my impressions.

Rhino
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width
  • Thread Starter
#44  
Please do and post pics!!

...
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #45  
Hello All,

Did some more discussing of getting spacers for the front wheels with my dealer, who based on his experience seeing front axle problems occasionally crop up even without spacers did not recommend them. And I reread the Kioti DK 40 manual and found the sentence that specifically said altering the tread width of the front wheels will void the warranty - so for now I'm going with just 4 inch rear spacers. They should be here in a few weeks and I'll have my dealer install them at my 50 hour service. I can't wait to see how they affect the stability of the tractor and I'll post my impressions.

Rhino

Since the front axle is on a pivot, widening the front has no effect until the axle pivots all the way to the stop. If that happens on a hillside, you are probably going over no matter. And rear axles are built much bigger than the front axles, so I think it is wise to not widen the front. I've seen guys reverse rims and on some models that widens the front, but you still have the pivot issue so I don't see how that helps much.
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #46  
Since the front axle is on a pivot, widening the front has no effect until the axle pivots all the way to the stop. If that happens on a hillside, you are probably going over no matter. And rear axles are built much bigger than the front axles, so I think it is wise to not widen the front. I've seen guys reverse rims and on some models that widens the front, but you still have the pivot issue so I don't see how that helps much.

Hey Dave,

Thanks for chiming in. You have made two strong points. And I will post before and after pictures as requested. I'll also comment on what I've learned about corrosion control when installing spacers in a future post.

My dealer mentioned the pivoting front axle as well, in the context of diminishing returns for the amount of stability gained, the loss of warranty coverage, and the cost of quality spacers. I agree it is not worth the stability gained while the front axle is under warranty - and probably will never be worth it since the tractor manufacturers (my dealer said Kubota came out with a bulletin about not widening front wheel track several years ago and Kioti has it in the manual) see it as a likely axle failure modification. It all depends on usage too since some front axles that people widened have failed and others haven't. My dealer pointed out that with a four wheel drive tractor a widened track will cause more flexing of the axle, which he thought during strenuous use (lifting, but also digging hard against something with the FEL) might allow the front axle drive gear teeth to slightly pull apart so the teeth tips are meshing rather than the entire "tooth". That might cause one to break and, depending where it fell, could wreak havoc inside the gear box. That made sense to me, but whatever the mechanism of failure that is exacerbated by widening the wheels on a four wheel drive tractor, it seems to be a fact that this happens more often with widened wheels than not.

But for purposes of discussion, while I agree widening the front would not help stability until that axle pivot point is reached, I suspect it actually would help prevent a rollover. All our tractors have somewhat different CG's in the vertical (distance of the CG from the ground) because some have loaded tires (lowers the CG), some have FEL's (raises the CG when an empty bucket is more than a foot or two off the ground since the arms are always above the non-FEL equipped tractor CG), the PTO implements can affect it, the ROP up or down affects it, our body weight high in the seat affects it, probably even a sunshade and for sure a cab raises it. My gas tank looks to be higher than the CG so a full tank probably raises the CG.

The sideways rollover happens when the CG's vertical plumb line gets outside the width of the tractor's wheels. This static tip over angle, even with a cab, has got to be greater than 30 degrees. It gets higher the wider the tire track - and the lower the CG. If we jacked our tractors up on a flat surface and kept jacking until they tipped over it might even be closer to 40 or 45 degrees. That front axle pivots how far? Does anyone know? I'm guessing 20-25 degrees? If it is less than the tipping angle then from that front axle pivot stop angle widening the front wheels would begin to assist in preventing the sideways rollover.

But a moving, especially while turning tractor, encountering bumps on the high side and depressions on the low side, can see their tractor's CG angle abruptly move outside the wheel width. This dynamic movement of CG as it hovers around inside the safe tread width is what surprises folks. I'm a pilot and safe loading of aircraft is critical so the CG is always within the ability of the ailerons and horizontal stabilizer to control the attitude of the plane at all flying speeds. With certain passenger and fuel loads we put sandbags in the forward cargo compartment to move the CG forward. I guess my piloting experience has made me as interested in this rollover subject as I've found myself *grin*. That and the HILLS on my property, which no matter how wide I space my wheels will never be safe to drive completely sideways across. I think they are right up there at 35-40 degrees in some spots, but that might be my imagination at work seeing me roll over and over and over...into the pond at the bottom.

It is helpful to me to imagine "safety" as a constantly forming and decaying, swirling like a tornado, vertical column of water inside a clear plastic tube. The water never can reach the top of the tube, which is absolute safety (heck, an asteroid could come streaking down and hit us on the head). If the water lowers until it gets to the bottom of the tube disaster strikes (however you define it - any rollover being a pretty big disaster even with a ROP and safety belt). So at any given moment the water level is somewhere in the tube as we work our tractors, drive our cars, fly planes (or cut vegetables in the kitchen) - dynamically going up and down with every little thing that happens and every little decision we make as operators. Every little distraction, every bump in the road moves the water down a bit, and then it moves back up as we get back on smooth ground or refocus on the operation.

Widening the wheels moves the baseline water level up, but with regard to the front wheels as you point out, not so much!

Best,

Rhino
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #47  
I originally set my fronts on the wide setting, but now with them on the narrow, the difference is negligible and I am now having more fun with a much sharper cornering unit when mowing - the tractor is more nimble in my toughest mow spot, which is one where the unit has to mow down and up a short hill, with an uneven bottom.
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #48  
Nuru,

Thanks for the feedback that the fronts being wider weren't a noticeable change regarding stability.

Rhino
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #49  
Nuru,

Thanks for the feedback that the fronts being wider weren't a noticeable change regarding stability.

Rhino

no problem, did you try that to see if you get the clearance you need?
 
   / Trying to decide on wheel spacers width #50  
no problem, did you try that to see if you get the clearance you need?

I've had the tractor since June and the front wheels, with the industrial tires, can only be set up one way. The manual is clear about not widening the wheels, so no, haven't tried anything with the fronts. I'm hopeful the four inch spacers for the rear wheels will feel as good as many posters have reported.

I should get them in another week or two, and will probably have them installed in five to six weeks when the tractor goes in for 50 hour service.
 

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