Tungsten sharpening

[deereman75]

I finally have everything I need to start tig welding. I have my argon hooked up, and yesterday I got a pack of 1/16 inch thorinated tungsten. Anyways, I am wondering how I should sharpen them.
I don't have a bench grinder that can be dedicated to tungsten, but I do have a kalamazoo 1x42 belt grinder for knife making. I am wondering if it would work alright to put a fine (320 grit) belt on it, and keep that belt for tungsten?
I have also heard of sharpening tungsten with a cutting torch? I assume that is more of a last ditch field method?
Any advice for angles to sharpen it at, or any other tips for starting scratch start?

 

[Gary Fowler]

My first advice is don't buy anymore 1/16" tungsten, they don't carry much amperage and break off too easily. 3/32" are much better, easier to sharpen than 1/8" and can carry 150 amps easily without overheating. Your belt sander should work ok to sharpen tungsten. You don't need a dedicated stone to sharpen tungsten, it just needs to be a fine grit (320 or so) and it needs to be fairly square shoulders. I know it is not supposed to be done, but I used to sharpen mine on the sides of the wheel while pointing the tungsten slightly uphill on the stone. This pulls the tungsten away from the point and gives a good sharp point. Don't point it to a needle point as that will just break off anyway if you are using a scratch start rig.
Sharpening with a torch burns up a lot of tungsten not to mention oxygen (you sharpen it by hitting the high pressure oxygen and bringing the tungsten into the edge of the high pressure jet. The preheat flame heats it and the cutting oxygen oxidizes it away. I don't think it would work for anything smaller than 1/8" though.
One secret to how you sharpen your tungsten has to do with the angle of sharpening. A rather blunt angle (say 45 degrees from vertical will give you a shallower penetration while a long angle 60 degrees will give more penetration. This is mostly in relation to root pass on open butt. The blunt angle makes a shallow flat bead where as the long angle will make the bead "hump up".

 

[lloyd430]

WEAR a very good dusk mask when grinding carbide- the stuff if really nasty in your lungs. If inhaled it weighs too much to be exhaled and gets stuck in you! The other thing to do as well in take a cheep right angle grinder and put a diamond or CBN blade on it and it will last forever and won't heat the stick up as much as a stone wheel. Have fun!

 

[Shield Arc]

Zap over on Welding Web posted how he uses a drill motor to sharpen tungsten. For years I did just like Gary, and used the side of the wheel. But after seeing how Zap does it, I started doing it that way.
Someone posted this chart on different ways to sharpen for penetration, I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.:confused3:

 

[deereman75]

Okay, thanks guys. I got the 1/16 tungsten because (for now) I can't see tig welding over 100 amps. I would mainly use it for sheet metal. When I start doing some heavier welding, I will get some bigger tungsten.
I am planning on doing my first tig welds today. Wish me luck..... LOL
Anyways advice on cup size and gas flow? I have #4,#6, and #9. Also, should I go with short back cap, or long? I have a pair of those things goatskin tig gloves, and some cheap copper coated filler rod. I really know next to nothing about tig..... LOL

 

[BowlBuilder]

The reason you don't want to sharpen it sideways is the small grooves left from grinding will cause the arc to jump off the side of the tungsten and not travel down to the point of the tungsten. By grinding it inline, your electricity will follow the grooves down to the end of the tungsten and give you a very nice weld puddle without arcing off to the side.

 

[BowlBuilder]

BTW, I've never used 1/16" tungsten on anything thicker than around 22 gauge sheet metal, Mr.Fowler is correct that 3/32" should cover about anything you will need to weld. Otherwise I would switch over to a mig welder.

 

[npalen]

Okay, thanks guys. I got the 1/16 tungsten because (for now) I can't see tig welding over 100 amps. I would mainly use it for sheet metal. When I start doing some heavier welding, I will get some bigger tungsten.
I am planning on doing my first tig welds today. Wish me luck..... LOL
Anyways advice on cup size and gas flow? I have #4,#6, and #9. Also, should I go with short back cap, or long? I have a pair of those things goatskin tig gloves, and some cheap copper coated filler rod. I really know next to nothing about tig..... LOL

Let us know how you get along. I'm thinking about investing in an Everlast or Longevity multi-purpose to see if I can't learn tig. All I have now is AC stick buzzbox.

 

[Shield Arc]

For now I would go with the #9 cup. Latter when you get into walking the cup, especially on V groove joints you'll want to play with different size cups to see which size works best for the bevel, and gap. I like to grind a small bevel on my cups so they slide better.
I run anywhere from 15 to 20-CFH

 

[DaveOmak]

deereman, morning.... If you sharpen thoriated tungsten, thorium is a radioactive element..... I use the drill motor, sanding belt method.... 60 deg or so works for me...

http://www.aws.org/technical/facts/FACT-27.pdf

Thoriated tungsten electrodes contain
thorium, a radioactive material that can
pose health and environmental risks at
elevated exposure levels. Thorium is a
low-level radioactive material that primarily
emits alpha particles as well as some beta
and gamma radiation. These electrodes
are normally sharpened by grinding as part
of the standard procedure while preparing
to perform gas tungsten arc welding
(GTAW). Dust particles from this grinding
process can cause internal radiation
exposure if the dust is accidentally
ingested or inhaled, so caution is
necessary. Concern regarding radiation
exposure to the external body from these
electrodes is minimal.

 

[deereman75]

For me, I am not too worried about the thornium.
I am sure I breathe in a lot of worse stuff every day in my shop. Welding smoke, lead, asbestos (not too often... LOL), solvents, chlorinated solvents (far away from welding) grinding dust, ect ect ect, ect. I am sure they all do more damage.
I personally feel a lot of this health and safety stuff is taken way over board. My grandpa used to cut asbestos sheet with a skilsaw on the jobsite, making a huge cloud of dust, and there were no dust masks. He died about 1.5 years ago, and never had the slightest lung problems. That was about 40-50 years later..... LOL

 

[Shield Arc]

My dad was a carpenter / millwright. I remember him telling stories about cutting asbestos all the time on the job site. He smoked 2-packs a day since he was about 8-years old. Seems like everybody in the south grew tobacco. He also drank a 5th of VO just about everyday, and never missed a day of work.
He died at 88-years old of a stroke.

You know when I played with Furu's Stickweld 250 with my Tig rig, seems as I remember turning the hot start and arc force all the way off. I've got to the point now where I use 2 % Ceriated, (orange) tungsten for everything.

 

[orezok]

I know that a lot of people say you must have a dedicated grinder for tungsten, but unless you're welding on nuclear reactors or pressure vessels, no one will know the difference.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Zap over on Welding Web posted how he uses a drill motor to sharpen tungsten. For years I did just like Gary, and used the side of the wheel. But after seeing how Zap does it, I started doing it that way.
Someone posted this chart on different ways to sharpen for penetration, I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years.:confused3:

That chart is just the opposite of what I found to be actual use on root passes. Sharp point as in first photo produces highly crowned bead inside of pipe where as blunt angle as in far right photo produces a flatter root pass. It may be as the photo suggests for flat penetration into the base metal

 

[Shield Arc]

That chart is just the opposite of what I found to be actual use on root passes. Sharp point as in first photo produces highly crowned bead inside of pipe where as blunt angle as in far right photo produces a flatter root pass.

That has been my experience too. Only Tig welding I've done on pipe is for testing. Here on the west coast the pipe fitter's unions are very strong. It's not real healthy to get caught welding on pipe when you belong to another union!
This is how I sharpen tungsten for the root pass on pipe. I like 37-degree bevels, knife edge, with 3/32-inch gap, run around 95-amps using 1/8-inch filler. For the hot pass I'll go up no more than 10-amps and switch to 3/32-inch filler. This is the best way I found to avoid suck back.

 

[john40981]

Okay, thanks guys. I got the 1/16 tungsten because (for now) I can't see tig welding over 100 amps. I would mainly use it for sheet metal. When I start doing some heavier welding, I will get some bigger tungsten.
I am planning on doing my first tig welds today. Wish me luck..... LOL
Anyways advice on cup size and gas flow? I have #4,#6, and #9. Also, should I go with short back cap, or long? I have a pair of those things goatskin tig gloves, and some cheap copper coated filler rod. I really know next to nothing about tig..... LOL

A great web site to visit to get some info to start you off on the right track is Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info
Jody does a video every week and the link will be email to you if you subscribe to his site. Browse the TIG links and I am sure you will find lots of usefull videos that will help you get started TIG welding. Good luck, it isn't hard after a little practice with the correct techneique.
Buy the way I grind mine on the bench grinder that I use for everything. Contamination is always talked about but as has already been said unless you are welding something very important it is not a issue realy and not worth buying a special tool just for this purpose if you are just DIY welding at home.

 

[Arc weld]

You can get chemical sharpener too that sharpens the tungsten when they're hot. If a tungsten is lightly contaminated, you can clean it by switching to reverse polarity and striking an arc on a piece of copper. Even a penny will work. Only strike an arc for a second or 2 or the tungsten will melt. You can turn the heat down a bit. This works good when welding aluminum especially. A super good TIG welder showed me this trick.

On another note, don't take the health aspects of welding/grinding lightly. Just like smoking, some people it never seems to affects and other's get emphysema/cancer and other health issues and are in a living **** having to pull an oxygen cylinder around with them 24/7 or worse being stuck in bed. Don't gamble it wont affect you when it's so easy to take precautions.

 

[Arc weld]

You can get chemical sharpener too that sharpens the tungsten when they're hot. If a tungsten is lightly contaminated, you can clean it by switching to reverse polarity and striking an arc on a piece of copper. Even a penny will work. Only strike an arc for a second or 2 or the tungsten will melt. You can turn the heat down a bit. This works good when welding aluminum especially. A super good TIG welder showed me this trick.

On another note, don't take the health aspects of welding/grinding lightly. Just like smoking, some people it never seems to affects and other's get emphysema/cancer and other health issues and are in a living **** having to pull an oxygen cylinder around with them 24/7 or worse being stuck in bed. Don't gamble it wont affect you when it's so easy to take precautions.

 

[deereman75]

I am normally pretty good about using safety gear. If I am doing more than a quick grind or cut with the grinder, I put on a mask. I have started wearing one while stick welding as well. Safety glasses are always used. Torch brazing and soldering are the only processes I don't use gloves for.
That said, I still do lead casting, use toluol, and methylene chloride paint stripper, and commonly run gasoline blow torches.
Especially with the lead casting, and blow torches, if you use your head, you will be just fine.

 

[Gary Fowler]

That has been my experience too. Only Tig welding I've done on pipe is for testing. Here on the west coast the pipe fitter's unions are very strong. It's not real healthy to get caught welding on pipe when you belong to another union!
This is how I sharpen tungsten for the root pass on pipe. I like 37-degree bevels, knife edge, with 3/32-inch gap, run around 95-amps using 1/8-inch filler. For the hot pass I'll go up no more than 10-amps and switch to 3/32-inch filler. This is the best way I found to avoid suck back.

That is the same with me, it produces a nice rounded bead with a little rise to the center.