Two loaded rear tire questions

[V1Rotate]

2002 New Holland TC40S
Is there any way to tell if these R1 Ag rear tires are tubed or tubless short of removing and breaking down the bead to look inside? I will in the near future have to remove the off side rear tire to install a second set of rear remotes.

Is there any way to tell what solution they are filled with? What I drained has a very slight brown/amber color (gawd, I hope not rust) with no real noticable smell or taste. The fliud has been in the tires since I bought it new and the dealer has changed hands and personnel so I don't think they can help. Are there any tests to check this solution? If it turns out to be plain water and tubless, please recommend what to do at this point regarding rust supression.
Thanks

Nickle Plate
I am faced with the same situation as you. I recently bought an 03 TC29 and discovered the rear tires were filled almost completely to the top so I drained them down to the proper level. The fluid was the the same color as yours, sort of milky but with a brownish tint. Don't ask me how I did this but while draining out the fluid I managed to splash some on my face, It tasted salty and burned my eyes (not badly though, I rinsed my eyes with some water and was ok). My valve stems look the same as yours and I notice a little rust around the valve stem hole, my dealer said the first place that the rims rust through is usually the around the valve stem.

 

[jinman]

Nickel Plate, all the tires on your tractor are tubeless from the factory. If you look on the casing at all the small print on the Titan tire, I'd bet you will find it says tubeless right on the tire. As you have shown, the water sure looks to be just pure with no calcium or antifreeze. As a previous poster suggested, putting some in a plastic container and placing it into the freezer should tell you for sure. Just don't put a popsicle stick in it.:laughing:

To tell if your tire has the proper amount of water, rotate the valve stem to the top (12 o'clock) position. Open the valve to see if water spurts out. If you get water, it is filled properly. If only air, then you need more fluid. The idea is to keep the rim under water and that will prevent rust. In reality, the paint on the insides of these rims is probably good enough to prevent rust for many, many years.

 

[nickel plate]

You can get a better idea of what the fluid is by either heating it (and seeing when it boils) or sticking some of it in your freezer and seeing if it turns to ice at normal freezer temps.

Elcid, it froze solid in about two hours in the freezer. Does the calcium solution freeze?

 

[nickel plate]

I agree id say its tubeless due to the 'nut' appearing to me metal. But as you can see with this
11.2/12.4x38 Inner Tube - TR218A Valve Type - GEMPLER'S
There are plastic nuts to hold these tubes in with
On mine its standard to have a nut hold the tube stem in on the rears.And for the 40 years I remember they have always been plastic.
with a tube you should be able to remove this plastic nut with your fingers its that loose a fit usually.
Hope this helps.
Also from the pic I would guess its a calcium mixture..

chopped, I checked the valve stem this morning and its is indeed made of brass.

 

[crazyal]

In your first pic, the valve stem has a nut on it. Tube tires don't have that.

I have lots of tube that have metal stems with nuts on them. I have more that have metal nuts, sometimes brass, sometimes a shiny metal, maybe chrome plated. I believe that it's most likely tubeless but I wouldn't go as far as to say that because it's not a plastic nut so there for it's tubeless. After all just take a look at any split ring truck wheel, I've never seen a plastic nut on the tubes in those wheels.

 

[Elcid76]

I googled Calcium cloride for farm tires and found:

WATER solid @ 32
31/2 LB. SOLUTION Slush free @ -12
5 LB. SOLUTION slush free @ -53

I would think that if it froze solid in the home freezer that it had very little anti-freeze or CaCl. Sure sounds like water to me. Other folks suggested weighing a gallon (you can google the weight of a gallon of water), or just divide up equal ammounts of fluid and water in identical containers and improvising a balance beam.

Personnally I am looking for rim guard for my tires, but the closest distributer is about 60 miles away and I have not been able to get my local coop to bite on selling the stuff.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

My guess is that you only have water in the tires. It doesn't get cold enough in your area to require anything else. You could add some antifreeze if your worried about rust, but I doubt that it is really that big of a concern for you with your conditions.

Just my opinion.

 

[Mace Canute]

With my apologies to the OP for hi-jacking his thread...

The idea is to keep the rim under water and that will prevent rust.

In my opinion, I don't believe this to be true.

In reality, the paint on the insides of these rims is probably good enough to prevent rust for many, many years.

True, but it could be a couple of years or a handful of years, or more perhaps. How can you tell what condition your rims are in without actually being able to check them on the fluid side? I believe that if you want to keep your rims from rusting, you need tubes.

I have three old John Deere tractors, two of which have loaded rears. Both have tubes and are over 55 years old, an R and a 70, and each has what appears in every way to be the original rims...I have no doubt they are indeed the originals.
(Web pic of a 70 Web pic of an R)

I also don't trust the factory paint to provide protection. Regardless of how good the paint job is, any small scratch will defeat it and also, just how good is the paint job? Is it designed to provide just a couple of years worth or decades worth of protection or just enough to keep the rim looking good until the tire is mounted? How many are Made In China, a country whose factories are known for their high standards of construction and genuine concern for the end users of their products? I've seen paint jobs on North American made vehicles that were so thin you could see the primer through them...

The idea that you need to keep the rim under water to prevent rusting is not without merit! Water and air (actually oxygen in the air) are essential for rusting. However, since dissolved oxygen in the water will also cause rusting, having the rim submersed in fluid isn't going to prevent rusting, it will just slow it down. Every time you drive the tractor, a thin coating of fluid wets the inside of the tire as it rotates up out of the fluid on the back side and then down into the fluid on the front side. I believe, and this is just a hypothesis (as opposed to a theory) that this constant motion keeps mixing the air in the tire into the fluid and keeps the concentration of oxygen of the fluid at as high a level as is possible. Any rusting happening on the rim will be supplied with a constant source of fresh oxygen via this mechanism. Since the O2 content of the air will be used up at some point, tire pressures will also drop and new air will be introduced when the operator pressurizes the tire to it's proper inflation level and so the process continues.

This website is useful in explaining rusting.

The use of nitrogen in tractor tires would eliminate the rust causing oxygen in the tire but in all likelihood there is very minimal use of it. How many people with a nitrogen tank actually use it to pressurize their tractor tires? That practice would prevent rust but I believe, since almost everybody is going to use compressed air, the practice of using tubes would be a better solution, since tubes would only have to be installed once and that would be the end of it.

Now that you've heard my reasoning, let's hear the rebuttals!

 

[jinman]

Now that you've heard my reasoning, let's hear the rebuttals!

My rebuttal is anecdotal, but I have seen a tire removed from a painted rim after several years of being filled with CaCl and the rim looked essentially new. With water and antifreeze containing anti-corrosive compounds, I'd think it would be even less. Also, the quantity of water above the rim allows for maximum ballast while giving some air space for compressed air so that a small leak will not instantly cause all pressure in the tire to be gone. I certainly can't speak to every installation, but the rim I saw was impressive.

Finally, if you have a tube inside a casing that is filled with fluid and you get a flat, The fluid will escape to between the tire and tube/rim. You must remove the tube and tire and do a thorough cleaning and drying of the wheel ring before reinstallation or you will have corrosive fluid around the tube in contact with the wheel. I personally had two rear wheel rings fail on a 1954 Ford NAA with tubes and CaCl. The insides of the rims were rusted paper thin and one actually split and let the tube pop out to blow up, giving me a CaCl shower. YUK!

 

[rutwad]

Tubeless tires could easily have had tubes installed. So it really doesn't matter if it was once tubeless. Deflate the tire enough so that you can push the valve stem in some. A tube will not leak, but tubeless would allow air to escape around the unseated valve stem.

Also, add 1 gal of antifreeze to be safe.