UAW basically lets US auto industry collapse!!

[2manyrocks]

Eddie, I don't think the politicians would really be interested in economic efficiency or saving money. They pad their legislation to get $ to do favors for themselves and their supporters. Before the Nov. election, I saw three state transportation workers scooping up gravel from a concrete gutter on the highway. They had about enough material to maybe fill a wheelbarrow. But they had brought out a new Volvo front end loader to carry the material off. One guy with a pickup would have been overkill.

Before the election, our governor announced three grants for DUI enforcement---each went to the home district of the speaker of our house of representatives. (I guess his district has more DUI's than the other districts, and the awarding of the grants had nothing to do with his being speaker of the house.)

The politicians have known about the risks of depending on foreign oil since 1973. What have they done?

Does anybody else find it interesting that gas was so expensive before the election, there was talk of energy independence, and now gas is back to $1.50 a gallon?

Who wants to buy a car when Pres. Bush gets on TV and tells us that we'e on the brink of another Great Depression if Congress doesn't immediately give Secretary Paulsen unlimited discretion to blow (er, spend) $700B to get the banks lending money again. (But why would the banks make loans if people don't have the income to pay them back?)

The politicians are supposed to be in control of the bank examiners who are supposed to be checking the banks for safety and soundness. Doesn't take a genius to figure out that subprime mortgage lending in excess of the fair market value of property is not safe nor sound. Where were the bank examiners when this was going on?

The lending practices of Freddie mac didn't help, either.

Politicians also control the FTC and Dept. of Justice who let the banks merge, merge, merge until they became so large that the failure of a Wachovia, for example, becomes a national problem instead of a localized regional problem. And the stockholders of Wachovia have taken a pounding while the CEO who was largely responsible for the mess received big bucks to go home.

It's not just the UAW and the executives of the Big 3, but the government itself bears responsibility, too, for this melt down in the banking and financial markets.

 

[Renze]

Who wants to buy a car when Pres. Bush gets on TV and tells us that we'e on the brink of another Great Depression if Congress doesn't immediately give Secretary Paulsen unlimited discretion to blow (er, spend) $700B to get the banks lending money again. (But why would the banks make loans if people don't have the income to pay them back?)........

......It's not just the UAW and the executives of the Big 3, but the government itself bears responsibility, too, for this melt down in the banking and financial markets.

As a European, i'm not on top of this news as you guys are, but i do try to follow it because it also effects us now..

Your post, as well as the piece written by that Ford dealer, sure has given me some new insights. I have read elsewhere about the loss of GM and profit of Toyota in the same year...

Also, the image of American made cars in your own country, doesnt differ much from how American made cars are valued in Europe: They do have the image of inefficient vehicles that nobody wants... However if GM is selling better than Toyota they must be doing something right, i mean, if American media speak of their national auto industry in terms of "cars that nobody wants" , the media is drawing a false image....

I havent been in or around American cars lately... Chevys they sell here, are Korean made Daewoo (in which i wouldnt want to be found dead) which once started as a license built Opel Kadett (Opel is the European GM subsidiary)

I think i'd better judge them based on the sales numbers instead of what the press says... As a matter of fact, the press writings of doom, usually become a self fulfilling prophecy because people that believe its all bad, will stop spending their money and when the money stops rolling, the financial problems spreads through the buy-sell chain like a plague...

 

[Diamondpilot]

This is complete BS! I worked in a GM plant and the entrances were video recorded 24/7. It's lies like this that have added to the anti-union witch trials going on right now.

This is not a lie. He was in maintenance so maybe they were able to slip in and out but it happened. I am sure a good portion of the jobs they did were on the outside of the plant.


Chris

 

[ToadHill]

I spent 30 years of my life negotiating union contracts for different companies and I can say that unions can ask for what they want but it's the company who agrees and gives in to unreasonable demands. Some companies never think of what they are giving into and where it can lead them. When times are good they agree to everything, it's the easy way out. When times get tough it's almost impossible to get things back that can save you money.

I know of many company negotiators who couldn't believe that I went into negotiations with a list of demands just like the union did. If they wanted something I wanted something in return. I will say that the first time I negotiated with most unions they couldn't believe that the company had things that they wanted and that we would not agree to a contract unless we got some of out demands.

 

[ultrarunner]

There was a news report a few days ago citing one of the opposing bail-out senators, name I can't recall, as saying that in 2007 GM and Toyota USA each produced the same numbers of cars, but GM ended up with a $35 Billion loss and Toyota USA ended the year with a $17 Billion profit.
That should tell us something about the way business is done. Anyone care to guess what it may be?

Toyota and GM also manufacture cars together on the same line at the NUMMI plant in Fremont CA... It was explained to me the GM/Toyota partnership does not have legacy costs and this is the major difference.

The Pontiac Vibe and Toyota Matrix go down the same line together as did the GEO Prizm and Toyota Corolla... so it's not a difference in product or quality here

 

[turbo36]

I spent 30 years of my life negotiating union contracts for different companies and I can say that unions can ask for what they want but it's the company who agrees and gives in to unreasonable demands. Some companies never think of what they are giving into and where it can lead them. When times are good they agree to everything, it's the easy way out. When times get tough it's almost impossible to get things back that can save you money.

I know of many company negotiators who couldn't believe that I went into negotiations with a list of demands just like the union did. If they wanted something I wanted something in return. I will say that the first time I negotiated with most unions they couldn't believe that the company had things that they wanted and that we would not agree to a contract unless we got some of out demands.

Well said!

I have a friend that was a plant manager and went through many negotiations. He was fond of saying " now listen a minute here, the contract we end up with will tell me what I can't do, not what I can do, so how creative are you going to force me to be?" He always got what the company needed to remain competitive.

 

[ToadHill]

Turbo: One of my old bosses used to say is " A labor contract defines which of it's rights management has agreed to modify to achieve labor peace."

 

[blueriver]

It's just wrong ...

 

[EddieWalker]

Diamondpilot,

You reminded me of another incident that we had to deal with. Three of our members go the idea to clock each other in and out. We had regular start times, and then depending on seniority, we had early starts for those who wanted it and what was available. Whoever had the early start would clock in himself and the other two. Then if one of them stayed late, he would clock out the other two when he left. There's no real way of knowing how many hours they stole from the company doing this, but after awhile somebody figured it out and they installed a hidden camera in the ceiling. They taped them doing this for two weeks before firing them.

They were off for a few months, but in the end, got their jobs back with backpay.

Eddie

 

[IH3444]

The labor union leaders are basically trying how NOT to negotiate themselfs out of a job. The plants need the workers to assemble cars, sort out some bugs, generate new ideas about assembly, and keep the line moving. If the workers take a small reduction in wages, say $4-5 hour, and then don't have to pay union dues, they only lose a little, if any at all. There was a time when labor unions were necessary, but with the Federal Labor Laws spelled out, such as 8 hour days, 40 hour workweek, overtime spelled out. The unions of yesteryear did create the demand for such laws as we have today. The workers then needed to be protected from the large companies just working them into the ground, under harsh conditions. It's tougher for the union leaders to look like they are needed. I haven't looked, but does BMW, produced in South Carolina, Honda, and Toyota have labor unions? I don't know. What I do know is that GM, and Chrysler are being driven off a cliff by what I see is the UAW union leaders. Lee Ioccoca said once, I have jobs at $14 an hour, I don't have jobs at $22 hour. He rescued Chrysler, and turned things around there, and made a profit. If GM and Chrysler do go bankrupt, they will reorganize into a better company. How much farther can they fall? THis is a capitalist system, you take risks and either win, or fail. GM bet heavy on the SUV market, and it worked well until gas went to almost $4 gallon. Bailing out the reckless decisions made by upper management, CEO's, and union leaders is almost silly. Not to mention the outlandish salaries the CEO, union leaders and managemnt make to be "rewarded" for running the company into the ground. Both are now circling the drain, but can emerge leaner, stronger, and much more competitive under chapter bankruptcy laws. There is going to be great pain, but the US car manufactures have fallen behind, and the union hasn't helped much, and they aren't helping now. They are still making unreasonable demands. The days of reconing are fast approaching. The talk is a deal will be worked out this weekend. I'm sure it mostly has to do with union consessions about a fair competitive wage to workers. If they don't work it out, and the both go into chapter 11, then a lot of other agreements are called into question. The retirees are the ones to suffer them most from all of this. And us as Americans will pay the union leader, CEO's tab for their reckless leadership. The whole thing is just absure. From giving people huge amounts of money for subprime loans, which they can't pay back. To 50-60 TRILLION dollars in worthless debt swapping credit paper, to bailing out the bank system, to now bailing out the mismanaged car companies. We are now reliveing events that our grandparents saw back in the 1930's, because our leaders can't remember history, and those whom can't remember history, are condemend to repeat it. I do believe that we will not make some of the great mistakes with our recovery that was made in the 1930's, but it's going to be a hard road ahead. Then there is the Medicare, Social Security, and other entitiments which are under funded by absolutely vast amounts of money. Chinese cars are suppose to make their arrival in 2010. Cars from India are not far behind. GM, Ford, and Chrysler better get their act wired together tight, because the compitition comming up soon is going to devore them down to the bone. I know I've rambled on, and there are many statements I've made, which can be pointed, and counter-pointed. The greed, and lack of leadership at the top of these companies is hard to fathom. These are our best and brightest from our best schools, and Universities running things.......