Uh-oh; stripped my yard hydrant - fix ideas?

[reasley]

Good afternoon, Jay --

One thing that you said concerns me -- and I say this not necessarily as a statement but maybe as a question.

You said that you plumbed the hydrant *directly* to the PVC pipe, correct? If so, wouldn't that increase the likelhood of breaking that connection over time?

I installed a hydrant, too, this summer, but plumbed it to the underground PVC via a 3/4" flex hose (see attachment) so that it could move w/o damaging the connection. Then, the hole was filled with coarse rocks to provide an area for drainage.

Richard

 

[RobertN]

Bird,
You will have to tone that down. But, I am guessing you have 110psi at the meter, then a regulator right after. If you have 110psi at the house, it definitely needs regulation.

In regards to sprinklers, pop-up spray heads as a general rule only need 15-30 psi at the head. If it is above that, the spray head will mist instead of spray. they don't work well when they mist. Rotors and impacts take more pressure. If you have to use different sprinkler types in different zones, you may need more than one regulator in your sprinkler system... Remember, do not mix sprinkler types, or even brands, on the same circuit. They will not match for flow or precipitation rate.

Where we are currently in town, I've been considering putting in a lawn sprinkler system (probably won't because of the high cost), but the water department guy put a gauge on my outside hydrant at the front of the house and said I have 110 psi, which does concern me.

Someone else may have a better idea, but I think the best thing to do is put an adjustable pressure regulator right after the meter.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think you need to toss those hydrants. You are already worried about them leaking and failing on you. That means it's probably gonna happen when you're not there and not able to fix it right away.

The other issue is something that I really don't understand. You have a two inch line, but only a 3/4 inch hydrant? It really doesn't matter how much presure you have, that 3/4 inch restriction means you won't get very much water out of the line if you ever need it. If you have a fire, odds are pretty good that it will kill you if you stand there with a 3/4 inch line trying to fight it.

Northern tool sells 2 inch fire hose.

Shop around and buy some 2 inch valves. Then run a pipe up to just below ground level and cover it with a valve box. Since there's no water in that pipe, it can't freeze. If you have a need for it, you just screw on the fire hose and open the valve.

A not 100% accurate, but good rule of thumb for water flow is to multiple by 2.5 the amount of water increase for evey half inch of pipe size. Anybody want to do the math what type of increase that will be to go from 3/4 of an inch to 2 inches?

Eddie

 

[Highbeam]

"now i have a question? what do you gain by going from 1inch line to a 2 inch line? i have seen a lot of people do that before and i don't understand why? if always figured, it its 1 inch coming out of the meter, thats the best its gonna get? i know theres bound to be a good reason or folks wouldn't pay that higher price for the 2 inch pipe?
heehaw"

Water distribution lines do NOT follow the weakest link in the chain principle. They follow the head loss principle. Meaning that while the water is ripping along through that long 1" line every foot of that 1" line is stealing energy via friction based on the velocity of the water in the pipe. Now if you use bigger pipe like a 2" line then the same flow rate of water will flow much more slowly and have less head loss due to friction and so you can increase the flow rate. Of course, the small meter orifice does limit the flow to a theoretical maximum but you will never get to this maximum if you use some dinky pipe size over a long run.

Eddie, the standard HD yard hydrant uses a 3/4" female inlet thread. I had to bush down from a 1" service line to the hydrant. It is still significantly better than the typical 1/2" copper line going to a hose bib on the house but you are right, a 2" hydrant would be able to utilize everything that the 2" main has to offer. Much much more expensive I'm sure.

Oh and yes. I installed my latest yard hydrant to replace a galvanized iron stand pipe with a faucet on top that froze and burst over the winter. Things even freeze in WA. You can lock the yard hydrants, they have a little eye hole that allows a padlock to be used.

 

[heehaw]

just a guess: but the only time i have seen a pipe with a faucet on top freeze and burst, is when a shut off valve was installed below ground. shutting the water off doesn't allow the water to push back into the line as it freezes...now thats just a guess, but i have used these things for well over 20 years, maybe 30, and never had one burst...yet anyway.
heehaw

 

[JRobyn]

Guys,

There were a couple of reasons for going with 2" lines:

1) my contractor had a bunch of it available for a very low price. Any other size, including going all the way down to 1" line would have cost MORE.
2) As Highbeam points out, the larger line has less friction loss, and this was a consideration over the long run (1400ft)
3) Because of the topography of the line, I now have about 600 gallons of "cistern" in the line should there be an extended county water supply outage. If I valve out the meter at the start of the line and crack the first hydrant open, I still have about 30-40 psi at the end of the line due to the elevation drop.

I really wanted to have a larger meter "tap" than the 1" one that I have, but the cost went from about $600 for 1" up to over twice that for 1-1/2". The county guys assured me that I'd have plenty of pressure and flow for the 2" main, and for several houses with the 1" tap. I believe they were right. Even with the choke of the 3/4" hydrants and a 5/8 garden hose, the flow is just awesome. Granted, it's not a 2" firehose, and probably not up to fire-fighting standards, but it's darn comforting to have those hydrants as opposed to the NOTHING that I had before (well, there was buckets and the pond).

There has not been any problem with the other 5 hydrants. Only the one I frequently use. This one is also the only one I've oiled. Maybe the oil got under the setscrew and is what caused a problem.

On a related note, I now have a product/manufacturer endorsement for Simmons Manufacturing (hydrant maker). After I called them to order a replacement "connecter", their technical rep CALLED ME to get more information and to offer to sent the part under warranty. He also hand inspected the new part before shipment to be sure it was up to quality standards (had well-formed threads). Evidently they have had some past issues with the threads for the setscrews not being cut too great. So they volunteered to make it right for me for free. I still think I'll thread the main rod and add some nuts!

- Jay

 

[JRobyn]

Hi reasly,

I'm not too concerned about straining the 3/4" - 2"pvc connection. The branch lines for the hydrants are 2", teed off the mains, with typically about 8-10 feet of straight line terminated with a 2" to 3/4" bushing. From this, I ran short (6") galvanized nipples, then a pair of 3/4" street ells so that I could adjust the hydrant standpipe exactly vertical. The base of the hydrants got a section of concrete block "backer" to make sure the pressure wouldn't blow the slip joints in the 2" line apart (had to learn this the hard way after blowing two of them!), then the holes were lined with geotex fabric (to keep dirt out of the gravel drainfield), the whole assembly was packed with about 5 gals of coarse gravel, and topped with more geotex. After all of this was gently tamped to solidify it all, I backfilled with Tennessee clay/mud and tamped it SOLID in lifts of about 6"-8". A little extra gravel and some nice big flat rocks around the standpipes finished it all off. There's a minimum of about 18" of the hard-tamped clay around the standpipes and they are VERY rigid.

My hope is that if they ever get hit hard enough to cause potential for stress at the PVC, that the standpipes will simply bend. Second line of defense should be swiveling of the street ells/nipple.

- Jay

 

[tommu56]

usually a curb stop is put on the end of pipe before hydrant and a valve riser to the surface with cover then use a key to turn off if needed.

valve
http://www.ejprescott.com/products/ServiceBrass/BallValveCurbStops.pdf

riser
E.J. Prescott | Water - Sewer - Drain - Gas

key
Water Key : Tools : Curb Stop Keys from our Online Water Works and Water Utilities Product Catalog

tom

 

[KYErik]

Take a good look at your water meter- there may be a pressure regulator already down in there. I finally got county water 3 months ago and was happy to see that water department included an adjustable pressure regulator plumbed immediately downstream of my meter (all under the same meter cover). I didn't discover this until after I put in my line and hooked on to the 3 foot pipe they leave hanging out of the meter.

Maybe our meters around here are considered "deluxe"- all the new county water meters are read remotely by radio (they still have the needle/counter to double check your bill) and it costs each person $600 to hook on (that includes the water department installing the meter in your yard)

You might be able to drill and tap that set screw hole for the next larger bolt size. It may be worth a try if you are going to replace it anyway.

 

[JRobyn]

All better.

I had to trim down the packing nut a bit to make enough clearance for the nut, but it works great and is easily adjustable.

There's no regulator at the meter.

- Jay