Uh-oh. This could be serious.

[irvingj]

2007 GC2310.... just hit 200 hrs yesterday. Used tractor with snowblower heavily for 2 hrs or so, parked it, shut 'er down, went to bed.

Today, after MAJOR snowstorm, went out around noon to start it up. It had been on the block heater for about 20 mins, plenty of time.

Turned key to glow for 30 seconds or so, then turned to "crank." Cranked very slowly for a few seconds, then stopped, no fire. Hit glows once again, then it wouldn't even try to crank. Figured the battery was low (why??), put a charger on it; still no joy.

Brought up a fully charged HD marine battery, put my commercial-grade jumpers on it, no crank at all, just the fuel pump. Lights, turns, flashers all OK. Fuel shut-off solenoid operating.

Dug out the owner's manual and the service manual, began studying wiring diagrams. Eventually bypassed all safety switches by jumping out the starter (also called "safety") relay, even though I could feel the relay operating, and on the bench it did just what it's supposed to when exposed to 12V. Still no crank.

As near as I can figure, the only things in the crank circuit are the Hi-Lo range safety switch, the PTO safety switch, the starter relay (gets coil power through the safety switches), the 40A slo-blow fuse, and the ignition switch itself along with the starter solenoid. (Seat switch does not have to be closed to start, as long as other switches are clear.) Other branches of ignition circuit all seem to work- fuel gauge, dash lights, fuel pump, fuel shut-off solenoid, etc.

Oh-- did I say that it's cold out today, snowing, and the tractor is NOT inside? Well, at least it was mostly undercover...

After making some jumpers and bypassing the "safety" relay with no luck, I eventually pulled the ignition switch --after removing a couple of panels....

Ah-ha! Inside where it's warm, on my workbench, no continuity between #30 (main 12v feed) and #50 (out to switched leg of starter relay, then to starter). There was also a bunch of green stuff on a couple of the terminals- obviously, some moisture got under the rubber cover on the back of the ign switch.

Cleaned it up with some TV tuner lube/cleaner, added some solder to make sure 2 of the flakier connections were good, and now I have continuity when switched to "start" position between #30 and #50. All other switch funtions read OK, too. All this, on the bench.

Figured I had it licked, except upon re-installing ign switch in the tractor, removing jumpers and putting everything back in order, STILL no crank.

Now it's getting dark, and I've got about 18" of snow all over. Finally called a pal with a plow truck to have him clear my driveway; how embarassing!

I'm still thinking the ignition switch is flaky, but the starter's next on the list. Got quite a pile of removed panels now!

Anybody think of something I'm missing here?

 

[blackd]

Really sorry to hear that IJ. Good luck!

 

[JMynes]

Check your ground and hot cables, both ends. A little crud and you can have mayhem.
If that's all good, pull the starter and let it thaw out inside, then put some jumpers to it. If it won't thump and spin, there ya go.

 

[Egon]

Throw a tarp over it and put a heater under the tarp for overnight.

 

[irvingj]

Couldn't sleep! Back up, doing research on a quirk I noticed just before giving up for tonight...

Three years ago (almost) when I installed my temp gauge, I tapped off one of the wires in the headlight molex-type plug to get a hot for the gauge light. (Actual gauge is mechanical, not electric.) Also dbl-tapped that feed for a light on the fuel gauge at the same time, so lights in both would come on when headlight switch was turned on. Been workin' fine ever since, until now...

Now, I get a light at the temp gauge as soon as the ignition is in the on/run position. Not on the fuel gauge. When I turn key to "start," it gets just a bit --but noticeably-- brighter! When I turn the headlight switch on, key still on, the temp gauge light goes out, but the fuel gauge light comes on.:confused2:

Not sure what's going on, but it's sounding like I may have created a short someplace there, that maybe chafed through after 170 hrs. I'll look into it tomorrow, when it's light outside.

If not, starter comes out for a bench test.. thanks for the suggestions, folks! I had already done that to the ignition switch-- set it on the warming shelf on the woodstove for 15 minutes (it got nice 'n toasty), just to make sure it was thawed out.

 

[MF RED in MT]

Hey Irvingj, sorry about your tractor trouble, seem they wait until it is needed and then give you trouble, . Just a thought for a few easy checks, clean the post and cables for the battery, and maybe add a heater to dry out the area behind the dashboard, . Good luck, KC :thumbsup:

 

[revver6]

one thing to check is the ground strap that goes from the frame to the engine block,located by the engine oil filter mine broke and i had a no start situation,traced it back and found it broken,worth a shot

 

[kennyd]

When I turn key to "start," it gets just a bit --but noticeably-- brighter!.

That's a huge clue right there...when a bulb is suddenly brighter it usually means a bad ground somewhere in a adjacent circuit.

 

[MikeInEburg]

That's a huge clue right there...when a bulb is suddenly brighter it usually means a bad ground somewhere in a adjacent circuit.

Ditto. Carefully clean and re-secure your ground point.
Mike

 

[irvingj]

kennyd- perhaps you could add something here...

First, I pulled out the bulb on the temp gauge, tried starting, no change. Fuel gauge light still came on with headlight switch. Then I unplugged headlight molex altogether- still no start. Put temp gauge light back in, reconnected molex to headlights, tried again- no temp gauge light now, but perhaps just a burned out bulb. Fuel gauge light still works with headlight switch. None of the wires I had added before showed any evidence of chafing.

THEN, things got interesting: I fashioned 4 extensions --male-to-female 1/4" spades, about 2" long-- so I coud separate the connector to the start (safety) relay. I wanted to be able to put my test light on the wire coming from #50 on the start switch, which is only powered in the "start" position, to see if 12V was even getting out of the ignition switch and into the switched leg of the relay.

As I was hooking up my 12V test light, I had a bad ground- wiggled the clamp (on alternator bracket) while touching battery positive to make sure I had a working light. Then I hear this "click" noise as soon as the test light lights up....

Turns out that, as soon as my test light is connected from batt positive to ground (through bulb, of course), the start relay kicks in--key is in OFF position! Then, I hear the d____d fuel solenoid operating!!:confused2: Pull the test light off the battery, start relay kicks out, and 10 seconds later the fuel solenoid drops out!

Yep, a weird ground somewhere- started to get too cold so I came in- it's about 11F this AM. I guess the next step is to check the frame ground as revver6 suggested. (Gotta warm up first!)

UPDATE: Couldn't resist taking a quick look, while shivering... revver6 I love you! You nailed it! Now all I have to do is fix it and see if the beast will start... Thanks a million!:thumbsup::thumbsup: Been up already for 2-1/2 hrs, really need to go to work soon- I'll update as soon as I have more info.

Thanks again to everybody- learned sump'n new today, for sure!

EDIT: revver6, I may have eventually found the broken ground, but I shuuder (literally!) to think how long that might have taken. Your directions about where to look undoubtedly saved me a ton of time, there it is, right below the oil filter!