ULSD and Power Service - question

[HGM]

At least VW had the flimsy excuse that the TDI was primarily aimed at the European market, where 50 cetane is widely available. Why would Ford bring to market a product that requires fuel that isn't available in the US? Does it say in the operator's manual to add cetane booster to the fuel?

I think I said Ford recomends 50 cetane.. So, if you are inclined to think about the testing procedures used and what cetane can help to do(along with other components in the fuel of course).. Then you might be able to see that at 50 cetane(what they used at the factory), you will get the performance and operating characteristics they claim.. If you dont use that grade of fuel(if you wish), you will not see those claims as reality...

And, no......Of course they dont say it in the manual, why would they? Its up to the nut behind the wheel to put the proper fuel in the vehicle. If he doesnt trust the fuel, he can certainly add it without harm.. The cetane is still a small portion of the picture, it will add fuel economy if your engine desires better fuel than you are putting in it, but the lubricity addition is also a good thing, especially for the older injection pumps and injectors.. Belive it or not, I dont really care.. I know you know your fuel and frankly am surprised to be having this discussion with you..

My recomendation stands as it did in one of the other 100+ threads regarding fuel treatments.. Anyone thinking about it, try it, if it works for you, continue.. If it doesnt, then dont bother.. Simple as that...

 

[HGM]

NO, I cant define "proper engine operation" in the manner that would satisfy an overanalytical hair splitter.



proper engine operation would be a short way of saying the performance was as expected to be or it is satisfactory for the design of the engine. sorry if I'm not specific enough or that you couldn't understand a generalization, such that it is.

premium gasoline does not increase the power output of an engine, in and of itself. the BTU content per pound for premium or regular gasoline is the same.

if an gas engine has to have its timing retarded in order to use regular fuel, and the retarding of the timing causes a subsequent power loss, then one might infer that using premium fuel increases power output , even though it isn't the fuel itself causing the power increase .

the same applies for the cetane rating. you need a high enough cetane rating to insure good starting and ignition. once you have a fuel with an adequate cetane rating, any higher rating has no further influence on engine operation.

cummins and detroit say a minimum of 45 on the cetane rating, if you feel the need to have to have a number.

OK, I believe that first shot was a bit over the top....... My reasoning is not picking spec's, but to make it clear for others reding that may not be too sure... The way I read your post was that if the engine runs, anything added to the fuel is a waste of money.. If you believe that then so be it...

Again, see my last reply about the cetane rating... Like you said, if a gas engine is designed to be run on premium, then it needs premium to avoid damage and obtain the performance it was designed to have..

If your Cummins was designed to run on 45, and you get 35 out of the pump, you will see a difference when you add a booster...

Again, I cannot change your mind. For me to try would be stupid, I have used it on calls I have made to repair vehicles that the techs had trouble with.. It will dramaticly reduce carbon build up, because the fuel actually burns completely. Performance and fuel economy also increased as a nice side bar...Call Ripply's if you'd like..

 

[KICK]

from the turbo diesel register. )




While we’re on the subject of fuels, let’s discuss another common question. What is cetane?

Cetane is to diesel fuel what octane is to gasoline. It is a measure of the fuel’s ignition quality and performance. Cetane is actually a hydrocarbon chain, its real name is 1-hexadecane. It is written as C16H34, or a chain of 16 carbon atoms with 34 hydrogen atoms attached. All HC chains are also referred to as paraffins. Cetane is a hydrocarbon molecule that ignites very easily under compression, so it was assigned a rating of 100. All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel are indexed to cetane as to how well they ignite under compression. There is very little actual cetane in diesel fuel.

All the hydrocarbons in diesel fuel have similar ignition characteristics as cetane. Cetane is abbreviated as CN. A very loose way to think about cetane is if the fuel has a CN of 45, then the fuel will ignite 45% as well as 100% cetane. Diesel engines run just fine with a CN between 45 to 50. There is no performance or emission advantage to keep raising the CN past 50. After that point the fuel’s performance hits a plateau.

Diesel at the pump can be found in two CN ranges: 40-46 for regular diesel, and 45-50 for premium. The minimum CN at the pump is supposed to be 45. The legal minimum cetane rating for #1 and #2 diesel is 40. Most diesel fuel leaves the refinery with a CN of around 42. The CN rating depends on the crude oil the fuel was refined from. It varies so much from tanker to tanker that a consistent CN rating is almost impossible. Distilling diesel is a crude process compared with making gasoline. Gasoline is more of a manufactured product with tighter standards so the octane rating is very consistent. But, the CN rating at the diesel pump can be anywhere from 42-46. That’s why there is almost never a sticker on a diesel fuel pump for CN.

 

[rutwad]

The local fuel truck driver says he can definitely tell a difference with the new diesel fuel. The added lubrication must be better than the old fuel because he said the valves on the truck are much easier to close and he can see an oil film left behind.

I am leary myself, but the large oil companies are not likely to risk damaging engines by withholding lubricants.

 

[gemini5362]

If there was a lubricity problem with ULSD, the engine manufacturers would be the first to be pointing it out to the refineries and the Federal Government. I don't know how it will perform in 20 or 30 year old diesels, but anything produced in the last 10 years I have been told is no problem. This reminds me of all the horror stories that were going around when they removed the lead from gasoline and how the engines were going to self destruct. Having been in the old car hobby for more years than I care to mention, I know of not one single engine failure that was attributed to unleaded gasoline. I hear lots of second hand information about someones sister in laws brothers father in laws uncle removed 5 times on his wifes side had an engine blow up, but not one that I could see for my self first hand.[/QUOTE

Do you not consider exhaust valve seat failure a problem ?

 

[DieselPower]

If there was a lubricity problem with ULSD, the engine manufacturers would be the first to be pointing it out to the refineries and the Federal Government. I don't know how it will perform in 20 or 30 year old diesels, but anything produced in the last 10 years I have been told is no problem. This reminds me of all the horror stories that were going around when they removed the lead from gasoline and how the engines were going to self destruct. Having been in the old car hobby for more years than I care to mention, I know of not one single engine failure that was attributed to unleaded gasoline. I hear lots of second hand information about someones sister in laws brothers father in laws uncle removed 5 times on his wifes side had an engine blow up, but not one that I could see for my self first hand.[/QUOTE

Do you not consider exhaust valve seat failure a problem ?

Nawww, that was due to full moon phase and the planets Venus and Mars being in alingment. Had nothing to due to the "cushion" additive lead being removed. And to think of all those hardened exhaust valve seats I installed over the years to repair the recessed valves was for nothing.

 

[KICK]

And to think of all those hardened exhaust valve seats I installed over the years to repair the recessed valves was for nothing.

the futility of it all.

almost like this thread, no matter what is sed, you can't quite bury the subject.

 

[rback33]

the futility of it all.

almost like this thread, no matter what is sed, you can't quite bury the subject.

*LMAO* That aint no lie... this is a thread I keeping checking back to and thinking,"This thing aint dead YET??!!"