ULSD in 2007 Chinese Tractors

[thingy]

Well there it is,if its just sulpher they are removing [or removing more],,wonder if thats all?
And another thought,,these refinorys doing this also make every other kind of oil/fuel and etc,,,,they could take out one thing and add another to act in its place,but still meet the new requirements?
I don't think they would make something that would hurt what,1/2 the desil motors out there running around in the usa,,,not the first go around anyways,,maybe 10 years from now they might tighten it up futher,,,I'll still keep using power service,[wonder if it really helps though],evidently it don't hurt. thingy

 

[SkyPup]

Well, there could be a huge conspiracy between all the diesel engine manufacturers, all of the international oil companies, and all the diesel injection equipment manufacturers to destroy all the diesel engine around the world prior to 2008, thereby forcing hundreds of millions of people to purchase hundreds of millions of new diesel engines and associated fuel injection equipment.

Come to think of it, I bet the Scrap Metal Junkyards are also in on this massive international ripoff too!

And I bet their high-paid insider lobbyists all forced the government to do it, and the government agreed, since they would get new taxes off all the new equipment too!

 

[Ranch_Hand_Supp]

Deleted because I have no point ... MadReferee



Ronald
Ranch Hand Supply

 

[MadReferee]

More food for thought.........


Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance Information Center - Government - Industry - Consumers

And..... Your point?

I have referenced this same site at least a dozen times in posts. The EPA has set deadlines for certain things to happen regarding sulphur in fuel. From a purely economic standpoint, the refineries will be at <15 ppm sulphur way before the EPA deadlines come into play. It costs refineries money to produce multiple "flavors" of the same fuel. Right now they are making only ULSD and any batch of fuel that doesn't meet the ULSD spec is treated as LSD or HSD. As the refining processes get better with experience, the amount of LSD and HSD that will be available will be decreasing.

ULSD is here, LSD and HSD are going to disappear faster than the posted schedule. That is a fact.

 

[thingy]

Skypuppy,huh? thingy

 

[greg_g]

ULSD will be fine for ALL Diesel Engines, on or off road, made in China, Japan, Romania, USA, etc.

Remember, sulfur stinks, it is NOT a lubricant, it is a just bad contaminate.

You must be one of those guys that figures if I read it on the Internet - then it must be true. There is a major difference between whether something is classified as a lubricant, or is simply considered to possess lubricating properties. Diesel engine designers have historically taken advantage of the lubricating properties - lubricity - provided by the sulphur content in diesel fuel. Lead isn't a lubricant either, but older gasoline engine design relied upon it for upper cylinder lubrication.

The whole story doesn't revolve around sulpher though. Technologies required to meet upcoming diesel emissions limitations require exhaust treatment; the diesel equivalent of a catalytic convertor. Just as lead ruins catalytic convertors, sulphur and other components will clog the scrubbing devices needed to clean up diesel exhaust.

So. The down and dirty is that "the hydroprocessing required to produce the <25ppm ULSD recipe physically removes sulfur and significant amounts of polar and aromatic compounds that give conventional diesel fuel adequate lubricating capability. Low lubricity in diesel fuel can cause engine problems unless treated with additives. Measurement of diesel fuel lubricity characteristics is important in order to monitor lubricity additives and final fuel quality".

I interpret all this to mean that any diesel engine not specifically designed to run on ULSD must regularly be fed lubricity additives to avoid shortening it's service life. And from what I read about the minimum EPA standards to which the 2007 Chinese diesel engines must conform, that includes them too.

//greg//

 

[MadReferee]

From what information I have been able to obtain, lubricity additives are being added to ULSD either at the refinery or at the bulk distribution center at the rack when the fuel is loaded into the transporter (same procedure as for gasoline). All ULSD leaving the the bulk distribution centers either on or off road, meet or exceed the currently in effect ASTM lubricity standard. This is according to the EPA. All LSD also meets the same spec and has since January 2005.

If you are paranoid or just plain want to be safe (my case), then find an additive that has been certified for ULSD and add it to your fuel. If these chinese diesels can't run ULSD then they have other issues that are way beyond what any additive can eliminate. People will use this as an excuse to claim the chinese stuff is crap. And from listening to you they may be right .

 

[greg_g]

If these chinese diesels can't run ULSD then they have other issues that are way beyond what any additive can eliminate. People will use this as an excuse to claim the chinese stuff is crap. And from listening to you they may be right .

You keep blowing off my original question Ref. For (hopefully) one last time - all I was asking when I started this thread was whether the 2007 Chinese tractor/dozer engines could use on-road (25ppm) ULSD without the owner subsequently having to pour in some kind of fuel additive. I've since found out that additives will in fact be necessary in most cases, until off-road clean engine technology catches up to that applied in 2007 on-road diesel engines.

No need to read any more into it than that.

//greg//

 

[SkyPup]

A lubricity standard has been devised specifically for ULSD.

 

[MadReferee]

all I was asking when I started this thread was whether the 2007 Chinese tractor/dozer engines could use on-road (25ppm) ULSD without the owner subsequently having to pour in some kind of fuel additive. I've since found out that additives will in fact be necessary in most cases, until off-road clean engine technology catches up to that applied in 2007 on-road diesel engines.

The answer to your question is absolutely, positively YES. (source = EPA). No ifs and or buts. Additives are added by the refiner/bulk distributor to make the fuel meet the same ASTM (Jan 2005) standards as LSD. (source = EPA).

BTW, ULSD is <15 ppm sulphur. There is no difference between on and off road engine technology. Engines should run on diesel fuel that meets the current fuel specifications. Emissions from the engines are another subject altogether. I am guessing you are mixing the fuel issue with the engine emission efficiency issue.