Under Engineering

[SPYDERLK]

I get both ends in my field. For the most part the engineers I deal with are great. The one's that get me are the sanctimonious one's that think because I spin a wrench and don't have a degree I am not worthy of having a conversation with them. But that's okay, I keep my mouth shut and let their crap fail then I go over their head and fix it correctly.
iii I actually like poor engineering. It gives me overtime to fix their screw ups and keeps us mechanics working.

:laughing: ... But when you have to fix your own, or pay to have em fixed, and deal with associated delays you really appreciate the parts that keep on ticking. And when sometimes you note the good choices made in them youre both thankful and impressed.
larry

 

[forgeblast]

I do have a newer 42c shell, this one seems to be holding up well, I cut a whole year and everything is in place and holding.

 

[LD1]

Boy I can come up with all sorts of things that are under-engineered, when I am working on it or repairing the item, but being asked on the spot like this, I am mostly drawing a blank.

But a few examples that I can come up with off the top of my head...

The kubota L3400 3PH is under-engineered......but we've all heard that one.



And currently I am working on my BIL's truck. Doing a tranny rebuild. So I dont know if the following is going to be under-engineered, over-engineered, or just poor engineering: but the following are my thoughts on doing this:

Truck is a 2005 F-250 4x4 with 5.4L motor.

First issue was with the y-pipe:confused2: 2 studs/nuts hold it to the manifold on each side. The upper one on the passenger side was a bear. With the location of the cat, length of the stud, and curvature of the pipe made it impossible to get to. The stud was long enough it needed a deep socket. But a mere 3/8 drive deep with a u-joint (wobbly) and it wouldnt work because of the cat being in the way and the pipe curving too sharply. End result was removing the inner fender well and getting at it with a ratchet wrench from the wheel well:confused2:

Second thing.....glad I already removed the wheel well. Because the starter on this truck has THREE bolts. One right smack on top. cant get to it from the front of the engine because of the motor mount, and cant get it from below because of how close it is to the frame rail, ya cant get a throw on the ratchet. Solution was about 30" of extensions with a wobbly and angled out the fender well:confused2:

Last issue (which will be on re-install) is going to be the torque converter. Old-school used bolts through the flywheel into the converter. This one uses studs on the converter with nuts on the backside of the flywheel. AS if there isnt enough to worry about getting in perfect alignment, now the torque converter has to be indexed just right and studs lined up:confused2:

Thats about all I got for now.

 

[Localmotion]

I have several occasions where I would say that equipment I've brought has been under-engineered - that said I'm sure there are many who could argue that I've just abused them... maybe my expectations are too high for my budget :laughing:

Anyhow, I've found a great solution...

When something breaks, I take it to my friend Paco in the local village who has a small but very well equiped workshop. He recieves my under-engineered part in the morning, and normally by 7pm I am able to collect the same part which is by now excessively over-engineered at very little cost.

Of course it would be better if the parts didn't break in the first place - but at least I am able to get working again quickly, in the knowledge that Paco has engineered the part to meet my abuse - ahm I mean needs... :thumbsup:

 

[BobRip]

The best thing to do is right engineered. If you over engineer it, it becomes too expensive and too heavy. If you make your bucket heavy it takes away from the weight of what you can carry in it. If it is too expensive then the customers go down the street and buy somebody else's bucket and you get laid off. Or the accountants think it is too costly and you get fired. If you under engineer it breaks too often and the company looses money on warranty claims and you get fired. To right engineer you need a lot of real world testing to expose it to real stresses. This takes time. After all this someone slams the bucket into a rock wall over and over and it fails. Tractors are used for so many different things that it is hard to get this perfect. Management sets philosophy about product quality so blame them to.

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have several occasions where I would say that equipment I've brought has been under-engineered - that said I'm sure there are many who could argue that I've just abused them... maybe my expectations are too high for my budget :laughing:

:thumbsup: If youre using a mechanical system sold to do a type of work, and it breaks doing that work it is a good indication that it is under engineered. Firm use to the intended capability is easy to distinguish from abuse. A system breaking itself when used firmly is just not OK.
oooDoes your guy tell you what they did wrong making the part that failed?
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

After all this someone slams the bucket into a rock wall over and over and it fails.

Theres abuse. If you push on the rock wall with an appropriate speced bucket for the tractor and it breaks, its underdesigned/engineered.

 

[Localmotion]

:thumbsup: If youre using a mechanical system sold to do a type of work, and it breaks doing that work it is a good indication that it is under engineered. Firm use to the intended capability is easy to distinguish from abuse. A system breaking itself when used firmly is just not OK.
oooDoes your guy tell you what they did wrong making the part that failed?
larry

I totally agree. To be fair, Paco doesn't normally have to tell me as I can see myself - but normaly he often accuses me of having purchased the offending items in the UK and not in Spain - which is rarely true, but I don't argue as his prices are VERY reasonable!

There will always be times when implements are pushed slightly beyond their limit and I have never been unhappy if something has broken under those conditions - but as you say a tool / machine should always be at the very least able to complete the job it was intended to do.

 

[ray66v]

Being unfortunate enough to have family and friends, that are engineers, I can tell you what they always tell me: The problem is not the way they designed the part, it's the way the budget people forced them to make it cheaper, to fit within their budget, that caused any insufficiency.

 

[Localmotion]

Being unfortunate enough to have family and friends, that are engineers, I can tell you what they always tell me: The problem is not the way they designed the part, it's the way the budget people forced them to make it cheaper, to fit within their budget, that caused any insufficiency.

I agree to a point :thumbsup:

But...

If a brand new €1500 flat lift plough breaks a leg (not the replaceable tine) within a few days, and can then be repaired and strengthend by a 3rd party for just €30 - wouldn't the manufacturer have been better to charge €1530 in the first place?

And 3 years on - the plough is still going strong