Unpopular HST?

rtimgray · Nov 12, 2003

I visited the local Kubota dealer yesterday while looking for a groundskeeping tractor for the plant. The dealer has had Kubota in his line for 13 years (and it is the only tractor line he carries) and he had about 35 units on his lot. The mix was two B-series, 5 M-series and the rest were the Lxx30 series.

What struck me as odd is that almost all of them had the DT transmission (as the dealer called it). I think he had two HST tractors on the lot. I asked him if that we because he sold out of HST tractors quickly or what, and he said that the HST were nice but not very good sellers for them. He said they probably sold the standard transmission 10 to 1 versus the HST, so they just didn't stock very many. He also said that they had only sold a total of one or two of the powershift-style transmissions, and those had to be ordered strictly at the request of customers - he said they would never carry them on their lot - not that there was anything wrong with them or that they had any problems, they just didn't carry them.

From most of the posts that I have seen on this board, particularly regarding Kubotas, the HST seems to be the overwhelmingly popular choice. I thought that I had read posts where dealers couldn't keep the HSTs on their lot - maybe this place is just an oddball. Not what I expected to find at a dealer (i.e. lots of DT sales, few HST sales).

And I thought that the Lxx30 series were very nice tractors, no matter what type transmission they had.

Boondox · Nov 12, 2003

Just out of curiousity, what sort of area do you live in? The reason I'm asking is the DT has more PTO HP and is sometimes more popular in rural farming areas where every bit of HP matters.

Having driven both, I vastly prefer the hydrostat.

Pete

chim · Nov 12, 2003

It must be an area-related thing like Pete says. When I bought my B7500 about a year and a half ago, there was what appeared to be a used tractor with something like 3 hours on it. The paint / decals were faded, but there were no signs of wear, no dents, etc. When I asked the dealer about it, he told me it was a "gear tractor". He said it was sitting there on the outdoor lot so long it just looked older. He also said he was thinking about putting a backhoe on it in the hopes of sparking some interest to get rid of it. The HST's outsell others by a huge margin here in this part of PA...........................chim

higgy · Nov 12, 2003

Here in Idaho if you are buying a small tractor ie lxx30 the HST sells more but the shuttle shift is not that far behind. In larger tractors its a toss up as to the drive system.

just my 0.02

Richard · Nov 12, 2003

Having been is sales before, it might also be simply, it doesn't sell much because they dont have them.

In my opinion, people tend to buy that which they see. I use to run a plumbing department for a lumber yard. The store was THE smallest store in that district. I jazzed up the vanity isles with custom order Kohler lavatories & faucets, fancy cabinets from Omega cabinets...

When I took over the department it was dead last in special order Kohler sales and when I left, it was number one. The ONLY reason for that change in my view, was the product was THERE for people to compare and make up their own minds.

I'd bet if the dealer had 50% HST units on the lot, their sales OF hst would pick up dramatically.

"If you build it they will come..." if you stock it, they will buy it!

(not to discount the other ideas about local conditions etc..)

Richard

Bird · Nov 12, 2003

Richard, as you said, there may be many reasons why the geared tractors outsell the HST in a particular location, but I agree with your theory and suspect that's the most likely scenario. Good point.

jcollins · Nov 12, 2003

We are a dealer in Texas and the HST is by far the best selling transmission on both the NH and Kubota side.

TresCrows · Nov 12, 2003

It may well be that industrial users prefer geat transmissions. They are generally very conservative, no frills buyers. Like another said, it may also be because the dealer is ignorant of HST and does not stock them and therefore cannot sell what he does not have. The dealer I bought from had a good mix, the smaller the tractor the more liely it was HST on his lot. The dealer downtown is mostly into industrial sales and they do seem to carry mostly large units with geat tramsmissions and then oddly, flocks of BX units, which are of course HST. J

DavidJ · Nov 13, 2003

I've been reading this and I'll just pass along what my salesman told me when I bought my HST.

They have 2 dealerships about 60 miles apart and he said that they very seldom sell HST units at the place where I bought mine, but sold several at the other location.

One is located in the center of farm country and the other close to a larger city. Also the dealership where I bought mine sells 10 times as much large ag equipment as anything associated with CUT's.

Hambone · Nov 13, 2003

One thing nobody has mentioned.
Maybe he sold all of the HST's, all that is left is the gear.....

_RaT_ · Nov 13, 2003

In my area, HST is pretty much the tractor they stock and will order the GST or DT. I asked why he stocks HST and the answer is simply that it's what folks want after they try it. I tend to agree. I still find the shuttle tractors a very close second though and would certainly tell folks interested in one that it too has some advantages over HST.

art · Nov 13, 2003

Good post, the bulk of our different brands we sell the hydro the most by about 1/3. Salespeople should ask what are you going to do and who is going to operate it. There are the older retired guy that used to farm, gear drive,that's what the M was. The city guy going country is normally the hydro do to kids, wife, as well as self with lack of good skills and only occasional use. There is more as some people get by with the economy versions just fine.

rtimgray · Nov 13, 2003

Hambone, you asked:

One thing nobody has mentioned.
Maybe he sold all of the HST's, all that is left is the gear.....

This was in my original post:

I asked him if that we because he sold out of HST tractors quickly or what, and he said that the HST were nice but not very good sellers for them. He said they probably sold the standard transmission 10 to 1 versus the HST, so they just didn't stock very many.

(addendum: the "we" in the "if that we because" should have been "was")

I had wondered if it was just because they sold so quickly and that was why he had so few HSTs, but he said that they just didn't sell enough HSTs to keep very many of them on the lot. I didn't ask if folks drove both the HST and DT models as a commonplace occurance or if they just came in and bought the DT.

We are in a relatively rural area, but there are lots of hobby farms and that type of thing springing up.

As the group of us picking out the tractor for groundskeeping went around looking, we tried straight gear tractors, shuttle shifts and HSTs and there wasn't a clear concensus. We were not fond of the JDs at all, gear or hydro, although some of the guys liked the New Holland Hydro, but also liked a gear version. Almost everyone liked shuttle shift on the Kubota, Kioti and Challenger that we drove (one of the Challengers had a power shuttle while the other was a mechanical shuttle). The guy who is going to be the primary operator of the tractor so far has said that he doesn't have a preference of HST vs. Gear vs. Shuttle - he just wants something better than the 20 HP craftsman lawn mower we have now.

NoTrespassing · Nov 14, 2003

Hmm....From your last post it kinda sounds like its going to be used for mowing. It's replacing a craftsman 20 hp. mower? I've got the L3710 HST, I've also got an old gear 1947 Farmall Cub that I mow with when its running, and I have rented the 37 hp. Kubota with shuttle shift for a couple days before I bought mine.

Just my opinion but if it were me, and I was buying for mostly mowing I'd go straight gear.

For all around versatility I'd go with HST it especially excels in loader/grader work.

I would imagine the reason he doesn't sell many HST's is due precisely to his sales pitch. If I hadn't read this forum and I went into a dealer and he tells me he sells geared vs hst 10 to 1 I'd walk out with a geared tractor and visa versa.

Kevin

rtimgray · Nov 14, 2003

The way it is shaping up, we are going to purchase two pieces of equipment: a ZTR for doing most of the mowing and a tractor for bushhogging the rougher areas (and areas that do not require consistent mowing), snow removal in the winter (we only get a couple of inches IF it snows, so that is not a big concern), and just some general tractor/loader use (we have to keep at least a 2' perimeter of pea gravel all around our buildings, so we can use the tractor to freshen this up as the years go by. We also plan on getting some pallet forks for the tractor because all of our forktrucks are cushion tired and not suitable for use off of concrete or asphalt). So the tractor isn't going to get nearly as much day-to-day use as the ZTR. I doubt that we will even get a finish mower with the tractor.

frank_f15 · Nov 15, 2003

i think u will find that the average compact tractor is is usually prefered with an hst tranny, wheras the larger tractors in most cases go with a geared transmission. for a lot of forward and back(fel work) don't think u can beat the hst

yellowsocks93 · Nov 16, 2003

Yep, all the new John Deere comapcts we sell are HST except the one I bought. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

_RaT_ · Nov 16, 2003

Frank, when you say larger tractors, what do you mean? Non compacts? I don't really know of any large tractors that are HST. It's pretty mucha compact thing. Construction equipment uses a lot of torque converter stuff and farmers pretty much use manuals from my limited knowledge. As far as larger compacts like JD's 4610/4710, NH's TC 40/45 or Kubotas L5130, L4630 or L4330, I know in my area, HST is still by far the dominate transmission sold. For general compact tractor duties, I don't know how you can beat it. For continuous ground engaging work like ripping soil, a geared tractor is probably a better way to go, but then, for serious ground ripping, I don't think any compact is really the optimim choice. For our orchards, we have had as big as a Caterpillar D11. The single kelley ripper penetrates the soil to a depth of 7'. At that depth, even the D11 has issues.

don716 · Nov 17, 2003

A friend of mine bought a D1750 HST 4x4 new in 1974 and he said he has no problem with the HST.He uses it all the time bush hogging mostly. He said he would put it to the test with mine whenever I want. I've got a B7500HST 4x4. I will probally pass on his offer.

Donny /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif