Update from an old visitor

[JASTN70D]

Trev

It is hard to know where to start here, But a good place may be that my wife and I have been Foster and Foster to adopt parents for about 4 years now. It is the greatest challenge we have ever known and yet of the 20 or so kids that have come through our home we have found an 9 year old we will adopt that is the best thing that has ever happened to us.

We were unable to have kids also so our motivation is much as yours was and yet we were able to find a child that matched us and we matched him. When he came to us he was a mess and still has some problems. We have been able to turn him around with much effort and much of that effort has been geared toward the demand for help from every one who would listen.

We at first felt the way your wife does if we take someone in we are committed to helping them and not turning our back on them, Then reality set in and we quickly realized that we are not equipped to help all and although we are trained and have certain skills we are not a match to everyone that comes here and the best way to help is to identify and then pursue the help that is needed for them and then follow up to be sure they are getting it were ever they end up. I think much of what we do is help the "Professionals" truly evaluate the kids so they get the correct medication if any and the correct placement if not us

It is in everyone's best interest and the kids in particular to be sure they get matched up to the most appropriate services for there needs, The fact you find yourself in this situation just goes to show how screwed up the system can be. 50 % of the kids that have stayed with us were from broken adoptions. This happens for the same reason you find yourself in this predicament now.

The only solution is to advocate as hard as possible. Demand the services your family needs now and be relentless, someone will help. And I know the services you need are offered for free in your situation you just have to get someone to admit it. Do not let the County blow you off any more Talk to the Court if need be or you county council. Believe me if you shake the trees help will fall out.

The solution may be the kids go someplace else or they stay but a solution is needed as the kids will become the parents that in 10 years someone will be describing in nearly the same way you are describing there parents now. The system knows this even though they deny it in there actions. Make them accountable that is why there jobs exist and that is what the taxpayer should get for there money I.E the best that we can do not the fastest resolution!

We have found dealing with the system and keeping them from doing more harm than good is even a bigger challenge than the Kids!

I am sure you feel hood winkled and now think it is your problem only. That is the wrong approach. There is a law that says every child that comes to your home must be accompanied by every bit of information available on them so that you as potential Foster/ Adopters can make informed decisions, We have never seen it done correctly yet in fact the worse the Kid the less info you get. Now we realize if we have very little or no info we know there is a problem. If they they did not allow you to make informed decisions hold there feet to the fire now. I feel if they had you would have had services lined up before you adopted. You should have negotiated these potential issues before adoption, and you should have been told you could negotiate such issues. You should not be relying on your insurance alone medicare should be also available to the kids. Use any and all leverage you can, I know this sounds bazaar but you are fighting a monster and you must bring yourself up to the fight. Check the internet for more usefull info

 

[Trev]

Hi Jastn,

Congratulations on your own successful adoption, first! That's wonderful! You waited, and the right one came along. I kid my wife that we took the first two off the shelf.. she gets mad at me for that, but then chuckles. We should have known that Social Services was really pushing these two for a reason.. and one not necessarily with our best interests in mind. But we were a bit dumb, and the kids have such a great act.

That's very good advice.. shake the trees a bit and keep shaking until something falls out. We'll do that. We were a bit discouraged when we saw the quality of the "help" the kids were getting from "the system" and thought it was doing more harm than good. I guess I should have known that we could and should have demanded better.. but we didn't feel in a position to demand at that point.. and didn't feel like it was likely that they *had* anything better to offer or they would have. Silly of us, I guess. I read up on this kind of behavior, and the reading was not encouraging. Then I remembered my own few patients who displayed this kind of behavior, and began to feel that people were right who said it couldn't be treated. I sure never made any progress. They'll look you right in the eye and tell you whatever, but the next day they steal anything that isn't bolted down and lie about it. It's easy to fall into feeling hopeless about the whole thing.

Also, when I did this for a living, I could go home at night. And I could think about the little successes I had had with other patients. Now it's pretty much 24x7 of this, and there is no escape.

It's weird.. I started teaching myself programming while still doing the psych gig.. and my first program was one to chart behaviors over time. I plugged in one poor little guy's data, and went back through years of daily recording, and when I printed out the results my eyes went wide. Something nobody had ever spotted before.. behavioral outbursts almost always occurred about 1.5 hours after eating! Holy &^%$! I got a few of the M.D.s together and we looked at this, and we all whispered simultaneously "Duodenal Ulcer!!" Easy to miss if you have too many patients and have no way of looking at patterns showing up in years worth of data. And especially tough when your patient can't talk and can't even point to where it hurts.

Rambling again.. sorry! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Anyway, thanks again for the great suggestions.. and yes.. it's time to put some demands on the system!

I hope all goes well with your family.. and I'm sure it will!! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Best to you,
Bob

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Rambling again.. sorry! </font>

Trev -

In the immortal words of Led Zeppelin, "Ramble On", please. This thread is fascinating. About the only thing I can offer right now is the observation that at least it won't be TOO long until they're 18!

Well, maybe one more thought: I do believe that in true "Star Wars" tradition, the power of good is ultimately stronger than the power of evil. Just as light will overcome darkness every time, there is an innate source of goodness somewhere down deep in these kids. I think we all want to be loving, down deep. Sometimes it just takes a LONG time for us to set aside our anger so we can start doing it.

The more they can come to terms with their anger, the more that light will shine. They are largely filled with rage, and they have, deep in their own minds anyway, very valid reasons for that that rage. I don't mean that they should keep playing the "blame game" for one second longer than they already have, or than any of us should. But as long as they BELIEVE that they are entitled to steal your things, act out in any way they want to, and engage in all of the other things that they are doing in order to fill a terrible void deep inside them, little will change.

However, I think that the WORST thing that could be done is to try to deny them their own feelings. Telling someone that they have no reason to feel a certain way accomplishes nothing. They know how they feel, and trying to tell them that they have no reason to feel that way would be about as useful as telling a gunshot victim that he shouldn't bleed. Worse maybe, because they will probably resent you all the more for denying their feelings.

I see their anger as the key to this situation. Let them "own" it, it's practically all they've got to call their own. If you can help them to understand it that their "bad" behavior is a result of their anger, "validate" those feelings (let them know that it's OK that they feel that way, and that their reasons for having them are understandable but need to be resolved), and somehow help them to come to terms with it and let go of it at their own pace, maybe the "light" that is within them will start to obliterate the darkness that is causing them, and you, so much pain. They weren't born "bad kids"; and there, but for the grace of god, go you or I. It would of course require a great deal of love, forgiveness and understanding on your part, but it sure sounds as if you have it in you.

Also, although I don't even know you, you would be a rare individual indeed if you yourself didn't have any residual anger from the "bad" things that have happened to you in YOUR life, one of them naturally being the very situation into which you have so incredibly generously placed yourself. Please don't let that anger, if any, get in the way of giving these kids what I think they need. Love, and UNDERSTANDING. I do NOT mean to imply that you should let them "get away" with ANYTHING. They don't need to be coddled or appeased, far from it. If anyone needs to have boundaries set for them that are absolutely inflexible, it's these kids. I also don't think you'd be doing either them or YOU a disservice by thinking about something like a military school or "boot camp"-type situation, as long as it involved EXCELLENT counseling too. (TALL order I know).

It just seems to me that the "bad" behaviors are the symptoms, and the CAUSE is the anger. Resolve IT (easier said than done) and the problem will be resolved (again, easier said than done). Maybe they will never change, just as one might never put out a raging house fire. But if you spray water on the flames, and not on the source of the fire itself, you'll never put it out.

Good luck, and god bless you for trying, John D.

 

[kevincook]

John,

You write a lot but I think that is your best post ever. I agree whole heartedly.

Keep up the good work Bob!

Merry Christmas,
Kevin

 

[Dozernut]

I don't have an answer for you, but we went through a similar experience. We adopted a couple of throw aways and it sure was an experience. We made the rules and stuck by them, though it was hard to do so. We would love them, yet be disappointed in them. Our daughter would deliberately do opposite of what we told her to do. She would sneak food from the table and hide it so she could eat it later. She had a very rough time before we adopted her and had been fed dog food and would not hardly eat anything she was not sure of. The wife and I would go to bed discussing if and how we had screwed up that day. We thought our daughter would take flight when she got to be legal age and we would never see her again. Boy were we wrong! She is now married and I have a beautiful grandchild. She is always coming home to visit or calling dad to fix something. She turned out very well in spite of her attempts to self destruct. Our son was easier but not without problems. He is now in college and on the Deans list and get this, He wants to be a psychologist. Don't sweat the small stuff, overlook somethings, have the patience of a stone and apply lots of love, it will take root.

PS: Contact the DCFS in your state and raise the roof, they are required to help you with those kids and help with therapy and other medical needs. A squeaky wheel gets the grease!

 

[Trev]

Hi Dozer!

Thanks for all the good advice, and we will be contacting everyone we can and raising all kinds of stink until we get some help here!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The wife and I would go to bed discussing if and how we had screwed up that day. )</font>

Weird story that reminds me of. On one of the very first days the kids did an overnight visit here, sort of as a test run, the boy was sitting in my lap (they were a few years younger then and it seemed okay for him to do that.) Anyway, out of the blue, he asked "So, are you going to come down and hop into bed with me later?" There was no sign of fear or worry in him, it was more like he wanted me to do that.

I may never forgive myself for what happened next. I really screwed up! I knew their biological father was a level 3 sex offender, and that their family tree was more of a bush than a tree, and so my first reaction was to reassure. I said "No! Of course not! We don't do things like that in this house!"

Now, what I should have said, I think, is something more along the lines of a casual "What would we do then?"

What I did was follow a gut reaction, rather than think! We might have gotten a lot of helpful information if I had just casually asked him some questions right then, but no.. I felt reassurance that they were now safe from any sort of molestation was important.

I've since tried to get him to open up about what he had in mind, but of course he doesn't remember the incident at all.

It would be nice to be able to go back and re-take that test.. if you know what I mean. Alas, I messed that on up and there's no way to fix it. We lost a lot of potentially valuable information there.

Now you know why I've slowly changed my career from psych to computer programming. As a psychologist friend of mine once said "Computers don't talk back.. and if they do you can just threaten them with a screwdriver and offer to take them apart and fix whatever is screwed up." /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Merry Christmas to all, and thank you moderators for letting this thread slide. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Bob

 

[Trev]

To all who have been so kind and supportive (all of you!) in this thead...

I think there may be a Santa Claus.

One of the members of the TBN Community, whom I won't name because I haven't asked his/her permission to do so, suggested a person we might want to contact.. someone who is extremely knowledgable about the issues involved.

Boy, is she ever! My wife, Viviane, and I exchanged lengthy notes with her *on Christmas Day* and we now have a new sense of hope! There are people out there who are very expert in helping these kinds of kids.. and in helping their adoptive parents as well. We didn't know that. Now we do, and now we have a direction to pursue (finding someone locally who is experienced in this.)

The person we exchanged messages with has been there, done that, got the tee shirt, and truly understands. She's already been an immense help to us in relieving the feelings of guilt at not having done "enough", and at not having "done it right." She really laid it out for us.. the situation we're in.. how others are in the same situation.. how it's perfectly normal to react as human beings react, how the majority of therapists haven't got a *clue* about how to deal with this, and how there *is* help out there.. and how to go about obtaining this help.

One day I will elaborate more on this, once we explore and learn more, and once we have the books and tapes and a referal to a local expert on this sort of thing. In the meantime just let me say that once again the TBN Community came through for us.. both in emotional support and in specific knowledge of where to turn.. and I can't think of a better Christmas present to receive!

Thank you all, thanks especially to the mods who let this thread go on, to my benefactor who turned us on to the person who can help us, and to Muhammad.. for creating and supporting this wonderful place.

A Merry Christmas indeed!!

My best to all of you!!!

Bob

 

[CT_Tree_Guy]

<font color="blue"> Thank you all, thanks especially to the mods who let this thread go on, to my benefactor who turned us on to the person who can help us, and to Muhammad.. for creating and supporting this wonderful place. </font>

Amen to those sentiments. I've said this many, many times before, to so many people that I meet. "Check out this site, TractorByNet, it is an amazing place, and it's not just about tractors. Boy, is that ever true.

Muhammad, wherever you are, nice job. It must be very gratifying to see the "germ of an idea" turn into what this site has become. Given how proud I am of my tractor, I can only try to imagine how proud you are of TractorByNet.

Bob, best of luck with your situation, and again, I commend you for your efforts and sacrifices. I really mean it when I say there's a light inside us all, just waiting to shine. Just look at all the light that shines out of all the people here. People caring about, and helping, other people. What else is there to life?

Best wishes to you, your kids, and everyone here at TBN for peace, happiness and harmony as we cope with all the hardships, and revel in all the wonders, that we experience together on our life's journeys.

John D.

And I'd just like to give a shout-out to whoever or whatever is responsible for opposable thumbs - nice job, I love mine. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[kevincook]

Bob,

I'm glad to hear you have new hope! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Best of luck,
Kevin

 

[dmccarty]

Bob,

Long time no see. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm glad to see you back.

I have thought of you and your family often over the years since you went "missing." When I saw this thread I expected a happy ending story. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Not sure where to start. I always thought what you were trying to do was exemplary. I still do. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You mentioned a favorite phrase from your grandfather, "... will it matter in a hundred years?"

Even if what you and your wife have tried to do for the kids does not work out, at least you TRIED. You gave them a chance. Kids in their circumstances have danged few chances. You gave it to them. Its more than most get. You gave them the opportunity. They may or may not take the opportunity but at least it was offered.

And that does MATTER. You TRIED. You took on an awesome responsibility and that MATTERs.

I would also go back to the state and even your county looking for help. We have found that the local counties very helpful with some of our kids health issues. I would be shocked if there was not help available for people in your circumstances. If there are universities in your area see if they have help. Another place to start is if their is a local crisis help line and/or domestic/sexual violence group.

Is there a website or group for Foster parents that could help?

Sometimes it helps when you realize the other people are in the same boat with you. You might be doing better than you think.

You situation is obviously at an extreme. But going to work and then having to go home to more work is just being a parent. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif My grandmother raised four kids by herself on a teacher's salary. I don't have a clue how she did it other than "you did what you had to do." We have two kids and with two people its hard. Its just plain old hard work. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif We get up in the morning, get the kids ready for school, get them to school, go work, pick the kids up, cook dinner, eat same, clean kids, maybe have time for them to watch tv/dvd, read them a story and finally lights out. There is no US time in that time line. It goes on day and night interrupted by trips to the hospital, doctors, kids being sick in the night, bad dreams, wetting of the bed, or just I miss momma. Course our kids are young but we are feeling pretty old with all of this. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Our oldest has had some behavior problems. I think it has been nipped at an early stage. She would throw tantrums at school. Hit the teachers on occasion, hit other kids and throw furniture. She is in kindergarden. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif She sure does not see this at home but I think she picked it up from her friends at school. Some of them don't have a good home situation. I firmly believe that people have pattern of behaviors. This can be good or bad. Our daughter got into a pattern that I'm hoping is now broke. Hopefully she learned some other lessons as well.

Is there anyone who would take on the challange of watching your kids so you and the wife can take a vacation and get away for awhile? Sounds like you two need a break. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Glad to see you back.
Dan

PS: Noticed I had not read the whole thread. Thought I had. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm glad to see things are looking better. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bob, you had a comment about making a mistake as a parent. Guess what? We all have those moments. Yours has a more serious basis than most but we all mess up, or at least think we do, and later say I sure wish I had done this or said that. It happens. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif The wife was on me about this the night before last. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

And maybe in YOUR case YOU DID say the right thing...