Using A 750 Gal. Tank for Domestic Water Use.

[handirifle]

boggen,
The stream in question originates on my property. It is crystal clear. My grandfather drank it unfiltered for 50 yrs before me. The small town down the mountain uses this water in their resevoir and have done so forever. They test it twice a yr and he even sends me a copy of the test. I also filter this water and have a UV light on it as an extra precaution. I would be more nervous drinking city water than this water. Drilling multiple wells is not really an option. Especially at about 7k a well in my area. Tired of throwing money at this well when I have another clean water source 500ft form the house.

As far as filtering the crappy well water, i already explained that i put multiple filtering systems on the well. To the tune of about 8k. Everyone I have tried has the lastest and greatest and it will work for sure...... and it does, for about 4-6 months..
City water in my area? ---- My nearest neighbor is about 3 miles down the mountian. my driveway/road is 2.5 miles that I maintain. nearest town is about 12 miles.Safe to say city water isn't coming anytime soon. Codes? I live far enough back in the sticks that codes are not an issue. It is pretty much do what you gotta do to get it done.

So, I dug a hole in the creek, put in a submersible and buried the line under the frost line up to my house. It works great, nice clean water, and most importantly, wifey is super happy.

The only issue I have is that in the dog days of summer it dries up and we have to go back to the iron filled well for about 4-6 weeks. This thread is simply to get a few ideas on how to run a spring (which is on the other side of my property) into this tank in the summer so I wouldn't have to use the iron well at all. This would be the line that is too much of a hassle to bury. It would be summer use only anyway.

However, we have been getting a boatload of rain so far, so it looks like I should be good to go this summer..

That is because ALL filter systems have to be cleaned or filters replaced on a regular basis. Six months for as much iron as you say seems pretty good to me. If it were me, I would just plan on replacing all filters every 3-4 months, and call it good. You might even be able to use a sand filter (as in pool type) as a pre-filter to help with the life of the other filter cores. The sand filter DOES need about a monthly back wash though to keep it going. It might even need it more frequently if it gets clogged sooner.

As for the length of your lines, I agree with the others, if the water and electric are not put underground now, you will have nothing but future problems. Counting the depth my well pump is set to, my run is over 300yds, and have had zero issues for 2 years so far, and do not expect any other than normal wear.

Just size the electric wires to get the job done, and use either 1" or 1 1/4" line to supply your tank. Anything smaller will lose a LOT of pressure in a long run. You could even run a dual tank system, with an intermediate tank/pump halfway to the main one. Personally I wouldn't care who had drank from the well for how long, I would have it tested before my wife and kids were drinking it. Do you know how many ground water sources have been polluted in the last 50years? I think the possibility of contamination from some outside source is WAY to great to trust your families safety with.

And that goes double for the creek water. The possibility of surface sources getting into that water is HUGE. These guys are giving you advice based on a LOT of experience.

 

[woodlandfarms]

Your fathers colon in not your colon. He more than likely had a lot more immunities built up than you do. Nothing personal, but I bet if you had sent him to mexico he would have come home with a smile. I dare you to do the same ;-)

This all said, there is a reason that backpackers take pills to clean out stream water. Underground water has "hopefully" been filtered by the surrounding soil. stream water is exposed to a lot of stuff and is unfiltered.

But if you insist, I would place your system deep below the frost line, from stem to stern. also, 750 gallons is not very much. With global warmin, and yes, yes, I do believe there is global warming, you are basing your future water happiness on an unreliable source. I would hedge my bet at 1500 gallons minimum.

As for your filtration of your well water. What a bummer. And filtering it is not cheap if you are going for a whole house filter.... But it can be done and it is done all the time... Probably for the same investment as your underground system.

 

[pat32rf]

If I understand things, the run from the springs to the tank will be gravity fed, and the tank is physically between the spring and the house, with lotsa room for any surplus water to run to the creek without causing a problem. I assume that you already have the tank in the ground ......
Why not clean out the tank (flush with chlorine) then let it fill with runoff from the spring. The sump pump will then pump it to the house. If you can dump (overflow)the surplus water and keep flow in the pipe during the winter, there is a good chance that it won't freeze in the frost. We get 30 below Celsius on a regular basis, but once the small valleys get snow covered there is still water flowing in the bottom of them. If you buy good quality plastic pipe, it won't be damaged even if it does freeze (the cheap stuff will just split)

 

[scesnick]

That is because ALL filter systems have to be cleaned or filters replaced on a regular basis. Six months for as much iron as you say seems pretty good to me. If it were me, I would just plan on replacing all filters every 3-4 months, and call it good. You might even be able to use a sand filter (as in pool type) as a pre-filter to help with the life of the other filter cores. The sand filter DOES need about a monthly back wash though to keep it going. It might even need it more frequently if it gets clogged sooner.

As for the length of your lines, I agree with the others, if the water and electric are not put underground now, you will have nothing but future problems. Counting the depth my well pump is set to, my run is over 300yds, and have had zero issues for 2 years so far, and do not expect any other than normal wear.

Just size the electric wires to get the job done, and use either 1" or 1 1/4" line to supply your tank. Anything smaller will lose a LOT of pressure in a long run. You could even run a dual tank system, with an intermediate tank/pump halfway to the main one. Personally I wouldn't care who had drank from the well for how long, I would have it tested before my wife and kids were drinking it. Do you know how many ground water sources have been polluted in the last 50years? I think the possibility of contamination from some outside source is WAY to great to trust your families safety with.

And that goes double for the creek water. The possibility of surface sources getting into that water is HUGE. These guys are giving you advice based on a LOT of experience.

The lines are already underground, functional and working like a charm. It gets down to -20 degrees here on a regular basis in the winter. It is a total no brainer to put the waterline to the house underground. I think people are a bit confused about this.

Again, I have tried the filtering systems. Yes, I know about and tried sand filters, pyrolox, terminox birm and a few other types of media. did the auto backflush, manual flush even dabbed in the salt sytems... So trust me when I say i tried about all the filtering systems out there, maintained them correctly, even had the Rainsoft guy try to maintain them and they still didn't have any longivity at all. Filtering was my first choice, as it would be with anyone else in this situation. I did keep my chlorine injection, 5 micron filter and UV light to protect against any 'surface sources".

this post is about how to properly bury and weatherize a 750 gallon tank down by the submersible pump that is in the creek in order to run a summertime only 1/2 line above ground from a natural spring to this buried tank. this way when the creek dries up in august I will have water continually flowing from the spring into my tank.
Once the creek runs again, i will no longer need the spring water and can simply turn off the spring water.

tried to post a drawing but can't now for some reason.
My main question is about how to keep the tank from freezing.

 

[scesnick]

Your fathers colon in not your colon. He more than likely had a lot more immunities built up than you do. Nothing personal, but I bet if you had sent him to mexico he would have come home with a smile. I dare you to do the same ;-)

This all said, there is a reason that backpackers take pills to clean out stream water. Underground water has "hopefully" been filtered by the surrounding soil. stream water is exposed to a lot of stuff and is unfiltered.

But if you insist, I would place your system deep below the frost line, from stem to stern. also, 750 gallons is not very much. With global warmin, and yes, yes, I do believe there is global warming, you are basing your future water happiness on an unreliable source. I would hedge my bet at 1500 gallons minimum.

As for your filtration of your well water. What a bummer. And filtering it is not cheap if you are going for a whole house filter.... But it can be done and it is done all the time... Probably for the same investment as your underground system.

As I explained to boggen in my previous post. This water originates on my property, is crystal clear, is used daily by the town below me in their reservoir. So I am essentually drinking the exact same water as they are except my water is filtered even more than theirs. I run it through a UV light and chlorine injection system just to be extra safe. This water is also test by the small town and the results are mailed to me. I can guarantee you it is cleaner than the water coming out of your faucet right now.
I have two children, I am not about to put them in harms way.
I am primarily posting a question about how to properly bury and winterize a proposed tank for backup water from a spring

 

[scesnick]

If I understand things, the run from the springs to the tank will be gravity fed, and the tank is physically between the spring and the house, with lotsa room for any surplus water to run to the creek without causing a problem. I assume that you already have the tank in the ground ......
Why not clean out the tank (flush with chlorine) then let it fill with runoff from the spring. The sump pump will then pump it to the house. If you can dump (overflow)the surplus water and keep flow in the pipe during the winter, there is a good chance that it won't freeze in the frost. We get 30 below Celsius on a regular basis, but once the small valleys get snow covered there is still water flowing in the bottom of them. If you buy good quality plastic pipe, it won't be damaged even if it does freeze (the cheap stuff will just split)

Pat32rf
you are correct. Except the tank is not yet buried. I plan on putting it right beside the creek where the submersible pump is currently in the creek and working. The only reason I need the tank is to collect the spring water when the creek isn't running, which is only a few weeks a yr. usually. So, i plan on also piping the creek water the 5ft or so to the tank with an overflow for continual running water through the tank. I am goning to use some big 4 inch pvc to ensure a large volue of water from the creek in the fall/winter/spring to keep the water fresh in the tank.

 

[boggen]

Koiphen.com and goto the pond and construction forum. many folks there that build large koi ponds. and do a lot of DIY filters. out of wide variety of tanks, from 10gallons to a few thousand gallon tanks. go through some of the SC (settling chamber) filter builds on koiphen. this would put you nearest to what would most likely work good long term. a settling chamber filter for a koi pond. allows water to spin around and stuff in the water should sink out of the water to the bottom of the tank. having a waste drain, in the bottom of the tank, allows you to flush the tank out with waste. but if you plan to do a "flow through" setup. were creek/spring water enters the tank, 24/7 and then exits the tank back to creek. you can run the waste drain pipe (located in the very bottom of the tank) back to the creek.

what above will do is allow stuff that is heavy enough to settle out to the bottom of the tank and get flushed back into the tank automatically, though you will most likely want to setup some sort of screened "waste drain" to keep stuff that might plug up the pipe that runs from the waste drain back to creek. from getting clogged up with something.

the constant water moving through the tank should keep ice from forming within the tank, exception the very top couple inches. in order to deal with this, come in "LOW" on the side of the tank, then use a 90 up. then a piece of pipe going upwards, then a 45 degree fitting. so the water coming into the tank and out of the 45 degree fitting "flumes" kinda makes waves at the surface of the water in the tank. if ya come into high with the inlet into tank, you can run into some headaches and possible redo of piping.

==================
how and were you setup the tank in regards to "elevation" can be a big one. and may allow you to get away without using a pump between spring/creek and the tank. and allow water to flow by gravity.

if you do not bury the tank and it stays above ground. AND the tank is built to be self supporting above ground. you can buy say 1/4" thick hard board insulation at local hardware stores that come in 8'x4' sheets. and they should bend enough to go around a cylinder shape tank without cracking. then if you want more protection for the hard board insulation. get some 1/4" plywood and do same thing as hard board insulation and wrap it around. then use some straps ((straps you might use for strapping something down to a trailer)) they will allow you to ratchet the straps tight. to hold everything nice and tight. and then fashion yourself some sort of top. the insulation helps to act like a wind break, and also helps reduce how fast the water will drop in temperatures.

as far as burring tank, if you do get it below frost line including entire top, exception the man hole. that extends from top of tank to a inch or so above surrounding ground. then the tank itself should never have freezing issues. or less you have things setup were a good cold wind can blow through the lines and through the tank. then all bets might be off.

 

[tony Cecil]

I have seen many open spring fed systems, that are very rudimentary.... mostly just fifty five gal drums, with spring water going in, and of course a covering over the barrel....The outflow was about half way up the barrel, and gravity fed it to the cabins.....They were all pretty close to the cabins, and were trouble free+ had the best tasting water......I didn`t realize it got so cold in Maryland, although when I lived there near Washington it was cold.....I personally think if the pipe were flowing it wouldn`t freeze, and I don`t think it would freeze in your holding tank if you had the supply and exit well planned out..

This is just a thought, but if you got some of the spray foam, and coated the holding tank, I think it would help, but the water would need to be flowing, and on an esthetic note I would hide the holding tank in some way, as it sure wouldn`t be pretty...Tony

 

[scesnick]

......I didn`t realize it got so cold in Maryland, although when I lived there near Washington it was cold

I live in Garrett County Md. at 3,000 ft. right on top of a mountain. western Md. is a totally different world that the D.C. Baltimore area.

 

[Adj100]

think outside the box... for winterizing dont dig into the ground, do you have any better soil on the property?

run the pipe on the surface, put used foam insualtion over it, and fill on top?