Traction Using a Tractor on Mountain Property

[Teachu2]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/336309-new-tractors-kioti-tbn.html gives you my background.

I looked at Mahindra, but the dealer only had HST. He also was not primarily a tractor dealer. Trailers were his product, and financing was his business. I shopped around, and the Case dealer endorsed Kioti. The Kioti dealer has been a tractor business for 75 years, and offered to demo a brand new DS4510 for the weekend said if I didn't buy it, he'd just put it in his rental fleet. I was hesitant, as I wanted 30-35 hp and no Tier4...and he found me a new DS3510 Tier3 that he could have in a couple of days. About $7k less than a Kubota 33hp Tier4 model. I bought it, and it was delivered a week ago.

I spent about five hours Saturday mowing with a 5' TSC rotary cutter. I have some steep grades that my 1800lb Mitsubishi MT210D wouldn't make it halfway up with the cutter, even with loaded ag tires and 200lbs of front weights. The Kioti shop foreman had insisted on loading all four R4 tires, it has a FEL, and the rotary cutter is ~500lbs, so it's about 4600lbs all-up. It was extremely stable, and a pleasure to drive. It climbed every hillside, the worst of which I had to lock the diff to get up because of some loose footing.

I have a lot of trees, and now I have fewer. Holly bushes? No problem - run 'em over and spit out the chips. Low branches on oak trees? The FEL bucket takes those right off. A 5" pine in the way? Oops - it's not there anymore. This DS3510 is just right - not too big to snake thru the trees, but big enough to get the job done.

As far as a BH, I decided not to get one. I don't need one often, and when I do, I need a big one - bigger than I want to use the rest of the time. I can rent or hire it out much cheaper than I can own one, and not have to maintain it.

 

[Teachu2]

double post

 

[vtsnowedin]

I want to thank everyone for their comments. Every tractor suggested has been checked out, and every bit of advice has been noted. Like I said, it's a process, and who knows? I may end up with a PowerTrac after all. We DO live only an hour away from the factory.

You're most welcome. We do enjoy giving out free advice. I hope you find just the right tractor for you and your property and we are looking forward to the pictures of it when you receive it.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

After a ton of research (I dream about tractors now) and long drives to dealerships, it's probably going to be a PowerTrac 425. On paper, it's exactly what I need in terms of power, versatility, and especially in terms of being able to "go anywhere" without the major pucker factor. This is real important to me. All the SCUTs I tried were real nice, but they felt so high and tippy. Maybe I'm a chicken, but I was nervous about driving off a steep but only one-foot-high embankment w/ the 22 HP SCUT.

I think tractors are still mostly designed for plowing fields; just not designed for hilly terrain. When you get them home you have to ballast tires, add weight boxes and wheel extensions....basically redesign the thing by redistributing the weight. So, yeah, obviously not designed for hills. The PowerTrac is. I think they're funny looking, and I don't understand why you can't pull some of the attachments behind, especially a box blade....but overall it seems to fit the bill.

Plus we ended up deciding on cash anyhow, so the lack of financing isn't an issue, and the PT will save several thousand even when you include attachments. I'll be able to buy more toys for it, and get even more work done!

We are just 1 1/2 hrs away, so hopefully MONDAY I'll be making a trip to Tazewell. Will definitely let everyone know how it goes. Will have J take some pics/videos too. If it performs like people say it does, and I feel more secure in it, will put a SOLD sticker on one of em. I'm excited!

 

[blucoondawg]

Which model are you considering?

 

[SpringHollow]

Try a couple of different sizes and be willing to walk away if it is not what you think you should get. It is nice that they have a place you can dig etc. Terry is a great guy and very helpful. I have not had much interaction with the others.

Ken

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Will look at the PT425, and others.

No worries; I'm good at walking away.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Ya'll helped me a lot 3 years ago, but before I could decide on a tractor, the business took off, things got busy, so I modded the Husqvee so I could do a little scraping at least. Thus creating the World's Smallest Tractor. In the meantime, our local established tractor dealer (and only tractor dealer w/in an hour's drive) switched from Yanmar (which I didn't like) to Mahindra (which was my first choice all along). So now I just have to pick a model.
:cool2:

To quickly re-cap, 15+ acres mostly wooded, all hilly-to-steep. Also, to update the chore list from 3 years ago:

1. Level & maintain a 300-yd-long gravel drive on a 10% slope--after every big rain. Got it in great shape using the World's Smallest Tractor. Took a while, but I haven't had to touch it in 2 years.
2. Crown, ditch, and either plant or gravel, not to mention maintain, a new 300-yd-long new road that snakes down the mountain to the 2 new ponds (grade 15-25%) Mostly done. Decided on grass. Ditch could use improvement, and some of the grass didn't take, so there was some erosion which needs to get fixed.
3. Clear branches, leaves, debris and maintain series of paths/trails around the ponds (grade pretty flat once you're down there) Very neglected now, plus a huge tangle of trees came down this spring.
4. Create new paths/trails for better access all over property, including smoothing out grades, removing lots of deadwood, big rocks, etc. Still needs doing
5. Still finishing up smoothing out the big mess left by the machinery for the new ponds; major removal of gouges, piles of dirt, and boulders and big roots that were exposed by the digging, and fine grading for better drainage, not to mention finish getting quick grass planted to avoid erosion. Done partly by hand, with help from the WST
6. Remove the huge piles of rocks/gravel created when we dug out the springs to create the creek running to the new ponds. Partially done
7. Buck and drag at least a dozen remaining trees we pulled out. Big ones. Done. By hand.
8. Clear out and move tons and tons of deadwood down in the other two ravines. Still needs doing
9. Create a navigable trail though same. Still needs doing
10. Improve/maintain the dams at the head of the ravines to control storm runoff. VDOT took care of that last year. Re-did the road and made us a lovely new storm runoff system.
11. Level and work a much larger garden. Still needs doing
12. Oh, and mowing, which is the least of our problems. Don't really have to bush-hog as all property is now either mowed or woods. Correction. Going to get horses, so need to bush-hog some.
New: need to level out an area for my new orchard (just a dozen trees).

I'm going to try to go bigger, like y'all said. Thinking either the Max 26XL or the 1523. If I can fit it where it needs to go....

 

[ericm979]

I live on 20 steep acres here in coastal California. Average grade of our land from bottom to top is about 20% but it's not even across the land. The upper half is very steep. The road to my water tank up there has a 25% section.

My first tractor was a Kubota B7100. Small but larger than a sub compact, especially the tires. I could mow with it using a small rotary cutter and move small bucketloads of dirt, but our trees are large and it was not enough for pulling logs and operating it on any significant side slope made me nervous. I tipped it once but the ROPS hung up on a pole I was next to so it didn't go over. I replaced it with a Branson 3725. Branson offers different size wheels and tires on the various models; I got this with smaller ones than it normally comes with. And I got 2" spacers on the rear axle. The smaller tires lowers the center of gravity, making it more stable on side hills. The wider set rear wheels (and R4 tires) also add stability. The drawback of the smaller wheels is a couple inches less ground clearance. The tradeoff was worth it to me. If there's something that the tractor might hit I can use the tractor to move it.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I live on 20 steep acres here in coastal California. Average grade of our land from bottom to top is about 20% but it's not even across the land. The upper half is very steep. The road to my water tank up there has a 25% section.

My first tractor was a Kubota B7100. Small but larger than a sub compact, especially the tires. I could mow with it using a small rotary cutter and move small bucketloads of dirt, but our trees are large and it was not enough for pulling logs and operating it on any significant side slope made me nervous. I tipped it once but the ROPS hung up on a pole I was next to so it didn't go over. I replaced it with a Branson 3725. Branson offers different size wheels and tires on the various models; I got this with smaller ones than it normally comes with. And I got 2" spacers on the rear axle. The smaller tires lowers the center of gravity, making it more stable on side hills. The wider set rear wheels (and R4 tires) also add stability. The drawback of the smaller wheels is a couple inches less ground clearance. The tradeoff was worth it to me. If there's something that the tractor might hit I can use the tractor to move it.

I wish we had a Branson (and LS) dealer around here. We are extremely remote. Whole county has one traffic light. No McDonald's, Walmart, etc. Lucky to have one tractor dealer, now Mahindra. Lucky that was the one I liked anyhow.

The spacers sound great and I will def ask our dealer about them. I trust them, they've been around a while, and everyone in the county has my terrain so he should be familiar with the issue.

Maybe we need a mini-class on TBN about "grade." Several charts were posted by kind TBN members. I think 25% is not that steep, but 25 degrees is a little steeper. Seems like a thing now, with folks moving to acreage in the mountains vs traditional farmers on flatter land, seems to call for special thought about tractors on steep land.

I'm okay with it. Have gotten to know almost every bump, stump, and rock in the last 5 years. A lot more confident in what I CAN do and what should not even be tried.

So you like the R4 tires....

 

[SpringHollow]

I was not paying enough attention to your post and was reading it as 20 - 25° - and thinking that would be like much of my property if you avoided the steeper areas and no way was I able to work the property well with a CUT or a SCUT. But you are talking more like 10 - 15° around your ponds. Your driveway at 10% (roughly 5 or 6°) we would call flat here. So if those are your worse areas that you actually need to regularly use the tractor, you should be ok as long as you are careful.

Ken

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Thought I would keep the discussion about tractor operation on hills going on a bit longer.

There's an iPhone App that's a clinometer, used to measure % and degrees of slope--it yells at you too Turns out a couple places on the woods trail/road are around 20 degrees, which is almost a 39% slope. When I graded these I made sure at least there is no "tilt" side-to-side, but it's a tad steep. I may be able to improve this a bit with the new tractor.

Was reading today and some Ag safety guy said always drive the tractor DOWN a steep slope and then go backwards UP the hill. Is that right? Tractor Mike says always keep more weight behind you when going down, then travel in reverse when going up. Any thoughts on that?

In this thread it also says not to fill the rears more than around halfway to keep the center of gravity low. Dealer says they fill them 90%. Thoughts?

For box-blading on steep, better to remove the FEL and put on suitcase weights?

So I did go one size bigger.

Specs that may relate to stability on hills:

Max26XL HST 4WD 25.6 HP
Bare Tractor Weight: 1863 (before filling tires)
Length: 109
Width: 54.3
Tires: R4, Front: 12 x 16.5, Rear: 23 x 8.5 - 12

 

[Jstpssng]

Thought I would keep the discussion about tractor operation on hills going on a bit longer.

There's an iPhone App that's a clinometer, used to measure % and degrees of slope--it yells at you too Turns out a couple places on the woods trail/road are around 20 degrees, which is almost a 39% slope. When I graded these I made sure at least there is no "tilt" side-to-side, but it's a tad steep. I may be able to improve this a bit with the new tractor.

Was reading today and some Ag safety guy said always drive the tractor DOWN a steep slope and then go backwards UP the hill. Is that right? Tractor Mike says always keep more weight behind you when going down, then travel in reverse when going up. Any thoughts on that?

In this thread it also says not to fill the rears more than around halfway to keep the center of gravity low. Dealer says they fill them 90%. Thoughts?

For box-blading on steep, better to remove the FEL and put on suitcase weights?

So I did go one size bigger.

Specs that may relate to stability on hills:

Max26XL HST 4WD 25.6 HP
Bare Tractor Weight: 1863 (before filling tires)
Length: 109
Width: 54.3
Tires: R4, Front: 12 x 16.5, Rear: 23 x 8.5 - 12

Did I miss something? You show a Mahindra on your avatar. (or whatever it's called.)
Congratulations, you finally got one!

 

[Fuddy1952]

You'll get better replies than me hopefully but I've always gone by "feel", even my JD dealer says that. When I got mine new from them last Fall they filled tires fully.
When I Bush hog, grapple, etc. I take hills as straight down as I can...never down then turn wheel. My place has really hilly areas. I just take it slow and easy. No one ever told me this (hopefully I may learn something here!) but I don't wear seat belt. I want to be able to jump from the high side if it ever tips! For really hilly spots I cut with a Cub Cadet zero turn mower. It does a great job, like ridding a toboggan. Low center of gravity, hard to flip. All the rough areas, sinkholes I filled in.
My other little tractor I use weights.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Did I miss something? You show a Mahindra on your avatar. (or whatever it's called.)
Congratulations, you finally got one!

Thank you!

Yes, I ended up with the Mahindra 26XL SCUT or CUT (whichever it is); not the Power Trac. Reasons: Cash sale; no service (and I'm not mechanical); but mostly, just wanted to be able to pull a box blade and scraper blade. A big part of my work. With PT these implements are in front of the tractor. I believe if the PT could have pulled a BB, I might well have gone that way in spite of the other things; would be a great trail-crawler for sure.

 

[ericm979]

There's a lot of argument about how to go up and down steep hills. I go backwards uphill and forwards downhill. Going forwards up hill it's possible to flip the tractor over backwards. If you do the 3pt won't help- it does not provide down pressure. Instead the implement will be forced towards the driver area as the tractor rolls over it. If you back up the hill you can keep the loader low. If the tractor starts to flip the loader can help prevent it. Ideally you'd have something heavy and low on the 3pt as well.

Downhill the loader again can help out if the tractor wants to flip. If the wheels start sliding you can drop the bucket and maybe slow the tractor down. Don't forget to put it in 4wd before going down a steep hill. I did once. It was exciting and not in a good way.

I leave the loader and bucket on and keep it low.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

You'll get better replies than me hopefully but I've always gone by "feel", even my JD dealer says that. When I got mine new from them last Fall they filled tires fully.
When I Bush hog, grapple, etc. I take hills as straight down as I can...never down then turn wheel. My place has really hilly areas. I just take it slow and easy. No one ever told me this (hopefully I may learn something here!) but I don't wear seat belt. I want to be able to jump from the high side if it ever tips! For really hilly spots I cut with a Cub Cadet zero turn mower. It does a great job, like ridding a toboggan. Low center of gravity, hard to flip. All the rough areas, sinkholes I filled in.
My other little tractor I use weights.

ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT as long as the ROPS is up. With ROPS down, then no seat belt. ALMOST every death from a roll over is from jumping off. The ROPS is designed to save the operator with his seat belt on. All you have to do is see or know of someone that tried to jump and died and you will change your mind REAL QUICK about jumping off. SEAT BELTS SAVE LIVES.

 

[Fuddy1952]

ALWAYS WEAR YOUR SEAT BELT as long as the ROPS is up. With ROPS down, then no seat belt. ALMOST every death from a roll over is from jumping off. The ROPS is designed to save the operator with his seat belt on. All you have to do is see or know of someone that tried to jump and died and you will change your mind REAL QUICK about jumping off. SEAT BELTS SAVE LIVES.

OK...thank you! I always assumed (bad word!) that I would jump from the high side as it started to roll, so I wouldn't get crushed. Also I have woods, and thought rolling over into limbs would be really bad.
As a kid I almost flipped our Farmall backwards going uphill. I was lucky. I wasn't sure how much pressure the ROPS would take either. Thanks again!

 

[dadster4]

Easiest way to safely travel hills is to keep the heaviest end of the tractor uphill. It will depend on what implement you are using or what load you are carrying on either end.
And keep your seatbelt on with a ROPS...you will NOT be able to get off before you flip or roll!

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

You'll get better replies than me hopefully but I've always gone by "feel", even my JD dealer says that. When I got mine new from them last Fall they filled tires fully.
When I Bush hog, grapple, etc. I take hills as straight down as I can...never down then turn wheel. My place has really hilly areas. I just take it slow and easy. No one ever told me this (hopefully I may learn something here!) but I don't wear seat belt. I want to be able to jump from the high side if it ever tips! For really hilly spots I cut with a Cub Cadet zero turn mower. It does a great job, like ridding a toboggan. Low center of gravity, hard to flip. All the rough areas, sinkholes I filled in.
My other little tractor I use weights.

No, I think you're right. I've scraped and crawled over most of this land with two Husqv's and have a pretty good "feel" for what's doable, which will help. But will have to figure out what this tractor can/can't do.

+1 on the z-turn. Wish list....

You're not too far from me.