Using clutch as a brake?

[son of man]

Why do I get the feeling you're pranking us?
... But giving benefit of doubt: Use both brakes when you don't want one brake to spin the tractor sideways. That could be dangerous at higher speeds and tip tractor over.
You must push in the clutch to disengage the engine from turning the wheels every time you stop. Apply brakes only you will either: not stop. Or stall the engine as you've experienced.

Go find somebody that can teach you how to drive a manual and the concepts behind them.
Good luck.

no this isn't a prank. I had the tractor for almost a year. However i got stuck the first time I bush hogged so it sat for about 6 months until I was finally able to get it free. We had an unusually rainy year so my ground is finally hard enough to engage. So far I've managed to bush hog our 4 acre field twice and cut most of the overgrowth around the edge of our pond. I learn a little more each time I use it. I just want to make sure i'm not making bad habits that could eventually damage anything.

 

[son of man]

Anytime you want to stop press both brake pedals, but have the clutch pressed first if it is in gear.

I fully agree that it sounds like you would be wise to find someone with a fair amount of tractor experience who can come over to your place, get on your tractor and demonstrate some basics of tractor operation/safety for you. Be careful.

I thought you stated instead of using both brakes to slow down, you normally lower the throttle. So I was asking under what conditions would you use both brakes simultaneously without first pressing the clutch?

 

[son of man]

seems as tho you are comparing the tractor to a car with an automatic transmission.

that's exactly what i'm doing... A friend of mine tried to teach me how to drive a stick 20 years ago but I never really got the hang of it. Lol. So in my world, I simply press the brake to come to a complete stop.

 

[boggen]

TractorData.com Massey Ferguson 1030 tractor transmission information

i am not coming up with any sort of sync transmission or like. on google. without knowing more of type of geared transmission.....

you should have 1 through 4 plus R shifter and then another lever for L/M/H (low / medium / high) for 12 forward gears and 3 reverse gearing options.

you should be able to shift between 1-4 by pressing in clutching and shifting to next gear.

unknown for L/M/H you may need to come to a complete stop before changing.

of course come to a complete stop before shifting between forward / reverse gear settings.

coming to a complete stop= always push in the clutch, and then brake. ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))

neutral = space between gears. were shift handle slides back and forth between slots for 1-4 and R (other words shifter not in a grove for one of the options = neutral) ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))

slowing down press in clutch AND/OR let off the gas / throttle peddle. ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))
--as clutch gets fully pushed in... press on brakes for quicker stopping. ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))

split brakes = moving your foot and leg around some. it is not tossing your leg down and being lazy. pending on were i place foot, i can nail both brakes at same time, or one or the other.

 

[son of man]

Wear a larger shoe on your braking foot. Not a high heel or a flip flop.

I'll try to keep that in mind next time I get some seat time. Lol

 

[TerryR]

I thought you stated instead of using both brakes to slow down, you normally lower the throttle. So I was asking under what conditions would you use both brakes simultaneously without first pressing the clutch?

Never. Well, maybe if you were in road gear and lowering the throttle setting wasn't slowing you fast enough, but I can't think of any time in normal operation.

that's exactly what i'm doing... A friend of mine tried to teach me how to drive a stick 20 years ago but I never really got the hang of it. Lol. So in my world, I simply press the brake to come to a complete stop.

You had better get the hang of it now, because that's what you have.

Terry

 

[RaydaKub]

You have a mechanical connection from the engine to the wheels through the clutch and transmission. If you use the brakes to stop the tractor, without using the clutch, what else do think the engine will do but stall? The clutch is used to allow the engine to run without transmitting power to the wheels. Pressing the clutch in removes the link between engine and wheels. Releasing the clutch links them back together. Once you remove the power from the wheels, the brakes can be used to stop movement as necessary. On a gear tractor such as you describe, the brakes are unnecessary to slow down because the engine and whole drive train is designed to keep the wheels moving at the exact same speed, *ALL* the time, for a given rpm. If you are just using brakes and no clutch, you are setting up a fight between the brakes and engine. Neither is going to win in the long run.

If your tractor stops "instantly" when you press the clutch, you must be traveling at extremely low speeds. I've never seen a tractor (or any vehicle really) that doesn't coast at least a few inches when the clutch is pressed. The exception would be if pulling something that offers great resistance (plow, stuck tractor, tree stump, etc.)

 

[Grandad4]

Son of man, these folks are doing a great job offering written advice but you, an inexperienced operator, are working with some equipment that can injure or kill in 100 different ways if not used safely. Getting some on-the-scene instruction from someone who knows tractors, mentioned earlier, is highly recomended.

 

[CobyRupert]

Son of man, these folks are doing a great job offering written advice but you, an inexperienced operator, are working with some equipment that can injure or kill in 100 different ways if not used safely. Getting some on-the-scene instruction from someone who knows tractors, mentioned earlier, is highly recomended.

Grandad makes an excellent point. If you don't know how to drive a manual, I'd guess you probably also aren't aware of a 100 different ways the tractor (and another 100 ways the bush hog behind it! ) can kill or injure. Please recognize you are a danger to yourself and all those around. Even the best, most experienced operator doesn't always see the 101'st way coming.
On the other hand, we all had to learn somewhere. Follow his advice.

 

[McREBEL]

A picture is worth a thousand words. You, an experienced operator and your tractor all together for a couple of hours would be worth even more. If the previous owner is nearby, is there a chance you could get him to come help you?

The article on pto safety linked below is a little off topic but would be worth reading.

Power Take-Off Safety | TractorByNet.com ? Compact Tractor Resource

 

[jim44]

Very entertaining and interesting thread. I've been driving tractors for about 50 years, and I don't remember ever unlocking the brake pedals. In my experience, though, if you're headed down a hill and step on the clutch, you ain't gonna stop. Well, on second thought, I guess you will when you get to the bottom or run into something.

 

[CobyRupert]

Ain't nothing wrong with keeping them locked...different preferences and needs...in my case I've been riding on & driving tractors for about 45 years and never had the brakes locked.

- Hitting both with 1 foot has never been a problem, but I can see additional safety advantage for locking them for high speed travel.
Unlocked :
- Obvious turning advantage, if required.
- A very quick way to avoid getting stuck, keep momentum and get the tire with traction to propel by braking only the other tire that is slipping when you can't or don't want to slam in the differential lock.

 

[son of man]

TractorData.com Massey Ferguson 1030 tractor transmission information

i am not coming up with any sort of sync transmission or like. on google. without knowing more of type of geared transmission.....

you should have 1 through 4 plus R shifter and then another lever for L/M/H (low / medium / high) for 12 forward gears and 3 reverse gearing options.

you should be able to shift between 1-4 by pressing in clutching and shifting to next gear.

unknown for L/M/H you may need to come to a complete stop before changing.

of course come to a complete stop before shifting between forward / reverse gear settings.

coming to a complete stop= always push in the clutch, and then brake. ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))

neutral = space between gears. were shift handle slides back and forth between slots for 1-4 and R (other words shifter not in a grove for one of the options = neutral) ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))

slowing down press in clutch AND/OR let off the gas / throttle peddle. ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))
--as clutch gets fully pushed in... press on brakes for quicker stopping. ((much like a manual transmission for a truck / car))

split brakes = moving your foot and leg around some. it is not tossing your leg down and being lazy. pending on were i place foot, i can nail both brakes at same time, or one or the other.

right, my tractor is just like you described. it doesn't have a synchronous transmission. under what conditions do you use neutral?

 

[son of man]

You press one brake when you want to help the tractor turn. You press both when you need brakes to help stop after pressing the clutch in. Locking the brakes together is a good idea when traveling at top speed so you don't accidentally press only one and spin the tractor around. But locking the brakes is a good idea only if the two brakes are adjusted evenly, which may not be the case with a tractor the age of yours. If they aren't adjusted evenly locking them means you are pressing one harder than the other, which will try to make the tractor turn dangerously.

The transmission is exactly like the one in a car, if the car is over 70 years old. Cars of that age, and tractors much more recently, did not have synchronized shifting, which means you, not gadgets in the transmission, have to make the gears turn at the right speed in order to engage them. In a tractor, the easiest way to do that is to stop. In a car or truck you had to learn to do it with some skill.

Terry

I didn't know car transmissions used to be made like that - that's before my time.

 

[son of man]

Never. Well, maybe if you were in road gear and lowering the throttle setting wasn't slowing you fast enough, but I can't think of any time in normal operation.



You had better get the hang of it now, because that's what you have.

Terry

oh ok, I understand what you were saying. per the manual, while travelling downhill or a steep decline, the engine should remain in gear to use the brakes. the clutch should not be depressed to allow the tractor the coast. therefore, the only other practical scenario I can imagine using both brakes simultaneously without first pressing the clutch would be to possibly slow down on a turn?

I was referring to a friend who used to drive an accura with synchronous transmission. in comparison, my tractor is a whole lot easier.

 

[TerryR]

under what conditions do you use neutral?

Neutral is just the condition of not being on one of the gears. You are always in neutral as you shift between gears.

As of "using" neutral, you do that when you want to let out the clutch with the engine running when you don't want apply power to the wheels. Like when you are stopped and want to pause for a minute with the engine running. But be aware that unlike Park in an automatic, nothing is keeping the tractor from moving. So unless the spot is dead level, you need to keep the brakes applied.

It's clear you don't understand how your machine works. As others have said, you really need some hands-on coaching from someone who knows how to operate a tractor like yours. It's a dangerous machine, especially with a rotary cutter, and used improperly you can seriously injure or kill yourself or others.

Terry

 

[the old grind]

If your transmission is not synchronized (JD 'collar shift', etc) you must come to a complete stop, but also wait for a few seconds before shifting and let the gears stop spinning to avoid the grinding sound.

Using one brake to help turn works best with 'narrow front' tractors whose front wheels can usually turn much more sharply. Differential lock (find yours ir you have it) can help you get unstuck, but applying brake to a spinning wheel can help there, and being in the lowest gear may be required since stopping one wheel will make the other turn twice as fast. Adjust both sides to evenness if you latch (who doesn't as default?) the brakes.

btw, about that pond ... mowing/hogging too close to the water limits wildlife activity that contributes to a balanced eco-system. Those who do so may have to feed fish to augment a narrow food chain and maintain a thriving population. One may have to choose between clear ground and shoreling/'buffer' maintenance. Size/depth of pond and access has much to do with how much of each you decide on to 'balance' the two. (I mow 12 of >2000 ft of shoreline. Managing the rest for wildlife cover is a complete job by itself... tho' more knowledge/experience than work after a while) tog

 

[bcp]

A simplified animated diagram here shows what a clutch does.

Common Problems and Other Types of Clutches - HowStuffWorks
----------
This represents the fluid coupling (torque converter) between engine and automatic transmission.


----------
A short article compares the two coupling system here.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj...aa0/uploads/4/3/3/0/43300233/1981583_orig.jpg
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And there were combinations of the two systems in use for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_Drive
---------
Bruce

 

[CobyRupert]

..please get lessons, but most importantly, please, please, please, post pictures if, (I mean) when, you put the tractor in the pond. :laughing:

 

[son of man]

You have a mechanical connection from the engine to the wheels through the clutch and transmission. If you use the brakes to stop the tractor, without using the clutch, what else do think the engine will do but stall? The clutch is used to allow the engine to run without transmitting power to the wheels. Pressing the clutch in removes the link between engine and wheels. Releasing the clutch links them back together. Once you remove the power from the wheels, the brakes can be used to stop movement as necessary. On a gear tractor such as you describe, the brakes are unnecessary to slow down because the engine and whole drive train is designed to keep the wheels moving at the exact same speed, *ALL* the time, for a given rpm. If you are just using brakes and no clutch, you are setting up a fight between the brakes and engine. Neither is going to win in the long run.

If your tractor stops "instantly" when you press the clutch, you must be traveling at extremely low speeds. I've never seen a tractor (or any vehicle really) that doesn't coast at least a few inches when the clutch is pressed. The exception would be if pulling something that offers great resistance (plow, stuck tractor, tree stump, etc.)

I've only used low or medium gear for the most part so I'm generally moving pretty slow. high gear is too fast for my comfort/needs. when I first drove it home a couple of miles, I used low most of the trip. all the drivers behind me were probably pissed. lol