Tractor News Viable Electric Tractor?

   / Viable Electric Tractor? #81  

crazyal

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Electricity is still electricity. The faster you charge a battery the more power you are going to need. That's either a higher voltage, which will require thicker shielding, or more current which will require thicker copper wires. Can you picture Bill Murry in Caddyshack dragging the water hose? It'll also require a huge upgrade in our power grid. Sorry but solar panels at your house will not help you when you are in the field doing work much unless they are connected to a battery system. EV's are nothing more than a temporary step towards a technology like fuel cells.

I can remember when the energy crisis hit (multiple times) and some people jumped on the latest fad. One of the latest fads with EVs are if the power goes out you can use your battery to power your house. That has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've heard. So when your car or tractor battery is dead then what? You now can't even go to work or use your tractor to feed the animals. In the end people return to buy what they want, what they feel best fits their needs. Or better yet what doesn't impact their style of living. Diesel is going nowhere since almost anyone with a little land can make it. Nobody does because it's "too much work".
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #82  

cqaigy2

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Electricity is still electricity. The faster you charge a battery the more power you are going to need. That's either a higher voltage, which will require thicker shielding, or more current which will require thicker copper wires. Can you picture Bill Murry in Caddyshack dragging the water hose? It'll also require a huge upgrade in our power grid. Sorry but solar panels at your house will not help you when you are in the field doing work much unless they are connected to a battery system. EV's are nothing more than a temporary step towards a technology like fuel cells.

I can remember when the energy crisis hit (multiple times) and some people jumped on the latest fad. One of the latest fads with EVs are if the power goes out you can use your battery to power your house. That has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've heard. So when your car or tractor battery is dead then what? You now can't even go to work or use your tractor to feed the animals. In the end people return to buy what they want, what they feel best fits their needs. Or better yet what doesn't impact their style of living. Diesel is going nowhere since almost anyone with a little land can make it. Nobody does because it's "too much work".
I'll just not run the cloths dryer on the day i charge my vehicle.
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #83  

jjp8182

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Just to add some fuel for thought (pun intended/attempted)- there have been recent news releases of universities developing methods to pull CO2 from the air in order to make synthetic fuels ...and for less than $4/gallon of fuel according to: Extract CO2 from our air, use it to create synthetic fuels - Energy Post

So it may very well turn out that manufactured hydrocarbon fuels just become the next "battery" technology and fuel cell or hybrid-powered vehicles end up being the near-to-medium future. Just saw one article that pointed out that there was a higher percentage of electric vehicles on the road in the early 1900's than there are today - which is an interesting tid bit to consider.

Even with battery technology advancing quickly it's still going to take a more than a little time to overcome the 30 to 100 times (depending on how a person wants to compare given current ICE engines don't use the full potential of the fuel) energy density advantage even gasoline has over current battery technology -- and given diesel has an energy density advantage over gasoline...

All things considered a mix of technologies isn't exactly a bad thing itself.....
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #84  

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Electric Cars go back to the 1830's. ICE (internal cumbustion engines) were shown to be better when they came along. And still are, to this day.

We don't know what would have happened had we worked hard on the electric vehicle (EV) for the last 190 years instead of the ICE.

We can start building nukes if we want to prop up the electrical grid but I suspect the lace-panty division would have a coronary if we did that.

Pixie dust seems to be the only answer. I'm gonna start my own Pixie Dust Company and get a goobermint loan. Like Solyndra

BTW; Tesla? You've heard of them?? While I kinda like Elon Musk, Tesla hasn't ever made a nickel on their EV's. All of their 'profit' is in the form of goobermint 'regulatory credits'. Look it up. generic motors is trying to cash-in as well. Those knuckleheads will screw it up, like they alwyas do, and we'll have to bail them out again because.... I can't think of a single reason, other than to make union workers fat as heck..... again.


Eleven states require automakers sell a certain percentage of zero-emissions vehicles by 2025. If they can’t, the automakers have to buy regulatory credits from another automaker that meets those requirements — such as Tesla, which exclusively sells electric cars.

It’s a lucrative business for Tesla — bringing in $3.3 billion over the course of the last five years, nearly half of that in 2020 alone. The $1.6 billion in regulatory credits it received last year far outweighed Tesla’s net income of $721 million — meaning Tesla would have otherwise posted a net loss in 2020.

Don't get me wrong. I love technology. Love it.

Just that, when the usual suspects (you know who I mean) get involved in any way, we always end up spending billions, if not trillions, of THE PEOPLE'S money and get next to nothing out of it.

American Universities are one of the biggest wasters of money on the planet. The only reason they ever do anything worthwhile is if the Private Sector is involved. And, no. They're not the answer to everything. Not even close. But Universities are even worse. They're where all our troubles begin. ALL of them.

Maybe China will figure something out
 
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   / Viable Electric Tractor? #85  

bearthebruce

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Maybe China will figure something out
Believe me, they are. They will have the market on batteries. They will have the market on EVs.. Their government does support the development of new tech.

I have worked with the Chinese for 14 years now with them making product no one in the US wants to make at a reasonable price. I've learned a lot and have much respect for their capabilities. That said, I have also learned that their value system is very much different from the West's values. That is changing. They want to be accepted in the West as equals.

On EV - China is ahead and will stay ahead. They want EV and they need it to lower their pollution problems in their huge cities.
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #86  

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Believe me, they are. They will have the market on batteries. They will have the market on EVs.. Their government does support the development of new tech.

I have worked with the Chinese for 14 years now with them making product no one in the US wants to make at a reasonable price. I've learned a lot and have much respect for their capabilities. That said, I have also learned that their value system is very much different from the West's values. That is changing. They want to be accepted in the West as equals.

On EV - China is ahead and will stay ahead. They want EV and they need it to lower their pollution problems in their huge cities.

In China, when they discover a corrupt official, they execute him. Here? They vote him into high political office.

When the Chinese want to build a factory. They build one. Here? You have to bribe the Federal EPA (oh, yes you do [through donations to favored 'charities']) the State EPA (same-same), pay off the local Union and hope environMENTAL whackos don't plant some bear scat or an old Eagle's nest on the property

The Chinese started out leasing their factories. I suspect they still do but not as much, percentage-wise

IOW, you want to build a widget, you lease a factory and all its workers. They set you up for 'X' amount of tme and when you're done. You leave. And they set up for the next Lessee.

You almost certainly know more about it than I do; but it was pure genius.

Meanwhile, we're stuck in the mid 1800's. It's sad.

Even our innovation (we are an innovation-based economy), when it's stolen by them our completely and utterly and thorourghly, absolutely useless DoJ looks the other way while the Chinese laugh their butts off.
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #87  

bearthebruce

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Even our innovation (we are an innovation-based economy), when it's stolen by them our completely and utterly and thorourghly, absolutely useless DoJ looks the other way while the Chinese laugh their butts off
In Shanghai and Guanzhou, I met with legal elements of the US Commercial Services concerning the illegal clones of our product manufactured in China and sold all over the world. Simply put, they told me there is nothing they can do given Chinese law. They threw up their hands and said we cannot help you.

As a manufacturer, it was not the response I wanted to hear from the professionals our taxes pay to represent us in foreign markets. I spoke to their IP lawyers.. their hands are tied. We cannot help you. Hire your own IP lawyer and try to do something in Chinese courts.

As said, not the response we wanted to hear.

We play whack-o-mole. Everyday we run an application that scours the WWW for illegal sales of our product. Everyday we write take down notices to eBay, Amazon, Alibabba and others. The sales get removed. The next day, they are back as a different sale. Our selling partners around the world also play the game with us. Its our only defense against the clones.

At one point, there were over a 1 million illegal units operating around the world. The legal units sold are a fraction of that number.

Yes, we understand the problem. Our government does not help.

The Chinese economy 2 years ago still was not able to be sustained without the export of goods to others. Owing to that, the Chinese government turns a blind eye to the copies - their economy needs the money. Their middle class is growing fast. It will sustain them within 10 years. But for now, goods have to be produced and sold outside China to keep things going.

The Chinese government is pouring large dollars into EV technology. They will lead the world as I said. They are investing more heavily than others.
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #88  

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In Shanghai and Guanzhou, I met with legal elements of the US Commercial Services concerning the illegal clones of our product manufactured in China and sold all over the world. Simply put, they told me there is nothing they can do given Chinese law. They threw up their hands and said we cannot help you.

<snip>
No sarcasm here at all when I say, they're almost certainly bought and paid for by the Chinese. Our officials, I mean.

All they need to do is get an order to seize any assets they might have in the US. They just don't want to.
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #89  

Grumpycat

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Electricity is still electricity. The faster you charge a battery the more power you are going to need. That's either a higher voltage, which will require thicker shielding, or more current which will require thicker copper wires.
Meh. You already have at least 1000 VAC on the utility pole. Around here they’ll power at least a dozen homes with 400A service before tapping a larger source.

Can you picture Bill Murry in Caddyshack dragging the water hose? It'll also require a huge upgrade in our power grid. Sorry but solar panels at your house will not help you when you are in the field doing work much unless they are connected to a battery system. EV's are nothing more than a temporary step towards a technology like fuel cells.
There are some really big problems to make fuel cells economically. And once that is overcome there is the problem of very poor efficiency. And the other inconvenient problem if where to get H2 from when you have demonized carbon”? The only economical source is from natural gas.

I can remember when the energy crisis hit (multiple times) and some people jumped on the latest fad.
Such as ethanol? Ethanol and H2 have the same benefits as gasoline and diesel through the eyes of Big Government: they know how to tax, regulate, and extort campaign donations from the industry. Have an awfully hard time controlling and taxing the production of electricity from privately owned PV panels.

One of the latest fads with EVs are if the power goes out you can use your battery to power your house. That has to be one of the stupidest ideas I've heard. So when your car or tractor battery is dead then what? You now can't even go to work or use your tractor to feed the animals.
By golly you are right! I’ll remember not to siphon fuel from my vehicles to power generators next time!

Or, maybe the truth is that when energy is needed I should take it from whatever I have?

Clearly you are new at this and not given it much thought. Armchair Quarterback Self-styled Environmental Activists long ago thought they had a perfect solution for Big Government to mandate: that your EV battery had to be taken as public property to “load balance the grid” thinking everyone would love that idea. The problem is they never actually do any real projects or businesses or farms where things have to pay for themselves without unlimited government grants. Is not as bad today but it is easy for the lifetime cost of a battery storage system to exceed to cost of the electricity that it stored. This is why utility systems do not purchase large battery arrays to store the surplus available at night for use during the day.

In the end people return to buy what they want, what they feel best fits their needs. Or better yet what doesn't impact their style of living. Diesel is going nowhere since almost anyone with a little land can make it. Nobody does because it's "too much work".
So you have never actually made biodiesel, else you would not say that. Budget $25,000 and see what you can do to make your own diesel. Please report on the consumable supplies needed and how you will dispose of the byproducts.

Then do the same for a PV solar system.
 
   / Viable Electric Tractor? #90  

Grumpycat

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Electric Cars go back to the 1830's. ICE (internal cumbustion engines) were shown to be better when they came along. And still are, to this day.

We don't know what would have happened had we worked hard on the electric vehicle (EV) for the last 190 years instead of the ICE.
Today’s battery technology is limited by our understanding of chemistry. It took 140 years to get the internal combustion engine to where it is now.

1970’s Popular Science EVs had problems with electric motor controllers. Used relays to recombine battery cells to control motor speed. I remember a prototype EV UPS truck that served a route in Huntsville AL about 1982. It went “clickety clack” down the road as big contactors regulated motor speed. It was a full size trademark traditional UPS brown delivery van.

Is quite an unheralded achievement how Tesla packs a 400 kW motor controller in a package about the size of a 5 gallon bucket.
 
 
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