Visit from the President

[ddl]

your are right, it was to control the prices but not for the farmer but the others. Your are also right it is not a free market but the farmer is a bystander in this fight also. I think the reason for this is that the government has turned independent people in to a bunch of beggers, the only thing that gets bigger is their mailbox for a bigger governemt check. Some farmers are out trying to try new ideas and doing things differently. My two brothers are prefect examples, one thinks everybody owns him something, the other is out doing new things, changing the way it has alway been and taking charge of his life. The amazing thing is the first brother is the oldest and the second is the youngest. If we stopped all the government programs for farmers, we would weed out the bad farmers and businessmen and the ones willing change will suceed. Lets let the chips fall where they may and the result will be a much stronger farm business. Just hink of the money they will save with smaller mailboxes.

Dan L

 

[cowboydoc]

Dan,
I agree with letting the chips fall but we've got to even the playing field first. Let farmes have control over their prices again and break up the commodity and government cartels.

 

[ddl]

without government invovlement, don't we get rid of the cartels?? In other words the feed tough will get too small for the cartels to feed. I am not to sure about this, need to know more to know what you are talking about with cartels anyway.

Dan L

 

[cowboydoc]

Well it's the govt. that has allowed these commodity brokers, the ones that buy the corn from the farmers and then freeze them out from selling to the mfg. There used to be a dozen or more companies that bought your product. Now with mergers it has come down to two or three brokers and they have sewn up the mfg. market, the market that farmers product goes to. The only way around this is to feed out livestock. This used to be a viable option and now the same thing has happened there. The govt. has allowed merging down to only a select few. So now the brokers have sewn up the farmer or rancher into only being able to sell to a select few. At the cattle sales there are a few independent buyers but ultimately even they have to sell to the big guys. Now there is about a 5% share of the market that is private. IE I raise a beef and sell it to you to have butchered. But you certainly aren't going to pay more than the going rate at the sales for the beef. Now some people will pay more because it isn't processed but that market is very small. Not many options for a small farmer, and a small farmer anymore is a couple of thousand acres.

When I say govt. and commodity cartels they are hand in hand. To get as small a number as are left there had to be govt. approval of the mergers. Govt. didn't bat an eye doing it. Now there's no longer competition. That's why I am shifting more and more to the horse market. I still have a chance there and can control more of my own market.

Perfect example here is the fertilizer market. There are two places left to buy your fertilizer from. A small company came in last year and tryed to undercut prices and get a business est. The big guys slashed prices below that and before the season was even barely begun the guy was out of business. The big guys have gotten so big that when a new company comes in and trys to compete they just force him out. Now it is the govt. that created this and this unfair business practice has to stop to est. a true market again.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I gotta jump in here.. if the entire farming community of the USA just STOPPED farming for ONE year.... put the land in cover crop/alfalfa or grass hay, what do ya'll think the commodity brokers, the 'futures' buyers and the giant ag companies would do? After all, even those farmer that have ironclad contracts with Archer Daniels, and so on, could in theory stop producing ... and without anyone to plow the corporate owned fields, drill, spray and harvest.. one year would see one HELL of a lot of change.

Sure, it's pissin up a rope, but Willie Nelson would LOVE it, and so would I.

Remember the PIK (Payment in Kind) programs of the 70s? Remember how the media portrayed all the 'rich' farmers getting paid for NOT producing ?

Simply put.. those ag companies are part of another conglomerate that has a subsidiary that sells you your Roundup, Rodeo, and so on.. and then buys your crop and pays you less than it cost you to plant it, as one said earlier.

I remember the Kansas signs I saw on I-70.. "One Kansas farmer feeds 71 people and YOU"

Ask someone who grew up in the big city... what they think.

Most of them never heard of Kansas, except as where Dorothy and Toto came from.

 

[Wingnut]

Sorry, KPP ... I'm on the "unpopular" side on that one. I was born and raised on a farm - back when a farm was a lifestyle ... not a licence to print money. We grew and raised enough to feed ourselves and have some to sell/trade for the stuff we didn't grow/raise.
Now, we have part-time farmers who raise wheat ... take vacations from their "real jobs" to plant and harvest ... and then buy new, un-needed, equipment every year to minimize their taxes.
My stepbrother has a fair sized ranch in Alberta ... he puts off selling stock, changes what stock he's raising, etc ... all to minimize the taxes he's paying.
Yes ... there are farmers who do not do as well .... but ... where is it written that you get to make all the choices and society gets to pay for your miscalculations?
Can't grow and sell for more than the cost of production? Is that "my fault" or your poor planning? Maybe that farmer should find another line of work.
If my business founders because I'm not selling what you want, or my price is too high, or I'm a terrible businessman ... does the government step in and help? Or does the IRS drive the final nail in the coffin?
When's the last time Willie held a benefit for small business owners?
I work pretty hard for my salary ... but I can't write off the equipment or expenses for getting to work. I spend thousands each year to make sure I'm staying at the top of my chosen profession ... how many farmers upgrade their education?
If you build a restaurant in a town that's already saturated with restaurants ... you've got a tough ride in front of you. Build a dairy in a location that's already saturated with unsold milk ... and we're supposed to feel sorry for you? Plant wheat when wheat has been selling under the cost of production ... and we're supposed to feel sorry for you?
OK ... enough venting ... I'll just end by saying I'd love to see the days of family farms returning ... you know - those places that were about a 1/4 section ... big ole horses pulling the plows and wagons ... no million dollar combines in the fields ... but it ain't gonna happen. People are not satisfied with a healthy lifestyle anymore .... they want all the toys and geegaws that the guys at GM and Ford can buy with their union wages.

 

[wasabi]

<font color=blue>.....but it ain't gonna happen. People are not satisfied with a healthy lifestyle anymore</font color=blue>

Wingnut... never say never....if the economy were to seriously falter due to outside contaigens, continued terrorist activity and a Mideast unrest borne oil embargoe, you just might see some folks flee fearful city living with all its trouble for a more "healthy" country lifestyle. If that happens, I would still predict it will never be really en vogue (too much work for most!!),....which is a good thing 'cause country folk don't want to be bothered with that many "slickers" around anyhoo.

I, for one, work for attaining just such a shift towards healthier living (not that we live in a city, we have it pretty nice where we are) without undue prodding from such catalysts, but have no illusions about doing it without a tractor and or other such implements ....which is one reason I'm still on the treadmill working hard to gather the necessary funds to make the shift...such a circle...just hope to be alive, strong and kickin' enough to enjoy the lifestyle when we attain it!

 

[cowboydoc]

Wingnut,
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPPLY!!!! It has to do with greed by the middleman and the govt. keeping food costs low at any cost. They have allowed the middlemen, Archer Daniels, Cargill, etc. to become basically monopolies. Now they can buy the grain for whatever they want to buy it for and believe me brother it's low!!! Well now what would happen is that all the farmers would go out of business. SOOOOOO the big middlemen get together and arrange for the big brother fed. govt. to give the farmers subisidies to keep them afloat so there can continue to be low cost food and astronomical profits from the middleman. Let me ask you. Do you see the price of your cornflakes or other favorite cereal decreasing in price? No sir you do not. Do you see the price of your processed feeds for your mini's decreasing? No sir you do not. What you see is moderate increases in prices on the food, further decreases in prices paid to the farmer. Pay them just enough to keep going and keep the subsidies coming.

It's not a fair market at all Wingnut. You won't hear the farmers saying they want more fed. govt. infl. In fact what you hear them saying is let's get together and form co-ops to get a better price and stabilize the market. Nope that won't work now because now the stupid feds. have allowed the middleman to make contracts with the producers so that they will not buy the product from the co-ops. If I tryed that with a group of physicians I would be in federal prison for the rest of my life. So would you in whatever business you are in as well.

No doubt it is a complete mess! But the feds and the middlemen have created it. It definitely isn't the farmers fault.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Wingnut, I too, was raised 'country', and have lived in large cities as well. Let me give a very simple example, perhaps not the best, but it will suffice for my purposes.

Farmer Brown raises Idaho potatoes, bushels and bushels of them. Sprays for the potato bug, and flea beetles, and so on.. finally harvesting them. Since he is a prudent fellow, he contracts for his crop well in advance, and does pretty much everything, within his power, of course, to increase his yield. After harvest, the trucks come round to pick up his crop, he receives on average, $.10/ lb ; thats a DIME per pound, of his potatoes.

Now, that broker he sold them to, sells some to this place, some to that place, all for a healthy profit of course (free market, as it were) and a huge portion to the fast food chain Mcdonalds.

Now, Mcdonalds skins the taters, deep fries them in vegetable oil (also an ag product) and then sells them for approximately $6.00/lb

Now thats a bit beyond the healthy profit and straight into obscene. Sure, there is a LOT of other costs, trucking, storage, many many things.. but dayum, somethin inside me says, now there has GOT to be a way that poor guy in Idaho could somehow get a lil more money for his taters.. but he cannot. He can sell to another broker, but hey, they ALL pay the same.. and if you don't like the pay, quit raisin taters.
Sure.. free market.. laws of supply and demand. I agree 100%.

Now, lets see.. if I remove the supply, by NOT growin a [censored] thing for anyone but myself and my family.. the demand oughta rise. After all, EVERYONE has to eat. And sure enough, if enough farmers stopped growing, the prices would SKYROCKET.. at the Chicago Board of Commodity Exchange. Do you actually think the poor SOB with the $350,000 combine, and $4,000,000 worth of land, who has a savings account of $1200 bucks, and barely keeps from bouncing checks is gonna see a DIME of that price increase?

Farming IS a business, and if my business model does not work, then I lose out, and go out of business. However, I know of NO other business, where the principals pay retail for all supplies, equipment and raw materials (seed) and then sell their product for less than wholesale.

Wholesale is what the broker charges the retailers of this product, to stock their grain bins, to fill their french fry machines...

As for "where is it written that I get to make all the choices, and society gets to pay for my miscalculations" ....

Do me a favor and ask the Fortune 500 company CEOs that. Ask the executive staff of Enron Oil Co. Ask the Chairman of the US Federal Reserve.

I choose to produce a product, and sell that product myself. Straight to consumers, fruits such as apples, pears, peaches, berries of many kinds, and so on. I choose, NOT to sell to some broker, but for someone with 10,000 apple trees, there very well may not BE such an option. Either sell to this guy, or this guy, both are going to pay the same. It's [censored] certain that apple farmer isn't going to open himself a roadside stand and sell 50,000 bushels of apples.

I do not know all the ins, and outs of the government price supports, and so on, but a very interesting question comes to my mind every time it is brought up... if we remove price supports, AND remove the artificial businesses that do nothing but act as a middleman for huge profits, not only would prices for those farmers go UP, but the prices at the check out stand of your local produce store would go DOWN.

I remember an in law of mine who raises apples in the Yakima valley of Washington state, telling me, if he could sell to grocery stores' central warehouses directly, he could DOUBLE his profits, and cut in HALF the cost of a Red Delicious apple at his local supermarket.

These artificial constructs DO serve a purpose, in that they make available nationally, the very best produce, and meat, that is available. There is a LOT of paychecks involved in the trucking, storage and other things.. which explains why there is such profit, since these brokers have to pay for a lot of this.

Oh and by the way.. if you don't think farmers are small business owners.. then perhaps I am actually wasting my typing. Farmers upgrade their education every year.. it's called experience. Remember that, next time, you buy some celery.

And yeah I would love to see the family farm 'return'. But let's NOT forget, the poor guy that runs that combine for Archer Daniels, HAS a family. He just couldn't compete, law of supply and demand, and free market, and all that...

So he got a job.

 

[JoeR]

You hit the problem on the head!!!

I wonder how much Archer Daniels, etc... give in campaign contributions??? I bet they have their interests protected!

Joe R.