VW Clean diesels.... how did they get them so clean?

[MikePA]

Its a new revenue stream for the Feds. Find something wrong and then fine the heck out of them. They did it to GM, Chrysler Fiat, Toyota, now VW, I figure Ford is next.

Sadly, far too many people think a 'corporation' pays the fine. They have no idea a corporation is nothing more than a legal entity. The stockholders, employees, customers, suppliers, taxpayers (reduced profit = less income taxes paid) etc., pay the fine, one way or another.

But the fact a 'corporation' is paying the fine keeps the peasants, their torches and pitchforks storming someone else's castle. Schadenfreude at its best.

 

[downsizingnow48]

Good idea and a simple check in the ECM code.

300UGUY confirmed.

i can't imagine EPA checks ECM programming. I wonder if they were tipped off.

They were caught completely by accident. Some researchers were studying European diesels to see if they were compliant under real road conditions. Then decided to compare with US diesels under real road conditions. The tests were way off for the VW diesels but OK for other tested cars. Then state of California and EPA got involved to find out why. Took a while before VW admitted they set up the defeat software on purpose.

 

[MikePA]

I wonder if a literalist at VW read the regulations and concluded they were only required to meet them during emissions testing. It will be interesting to find out who in VW management thought this was a good idea and approved it.

 

[JerryK]

I'm SURE that the computer programming error was entirely on the shoulders of some lowly engineer and the higher ups are completely in the clear ... [ insert many smiley faces here ]

 

[hosspuller]

I wonder if a literalist at VW read the regulations and concluded they were only required to meet them during emissions testing. It will be interesting to find out who in VW management thought this was a good idea and approved it.

The legal text is "At time of testing" If VW goes to court, they likely win. It's a loophole in the law.

 

[Travelover]

The legal text is "At time of testing" If VW goes to court, they likely win. It's a loophole in the law.

I don't think so. The emissions laws specifically address defeat devices. Even back in the early 80's when I worked as an engineer certifying vehicles to the EPA, this was anticipated and we walked a wide line around any strategy that could be deemed a defeat device.

 

[nikdfish]

We just bought a 2015 TDI Golf Sportwagen. Really like the way it drives currently & hope any recall/reprogramming doesn't screw it up too bad. Not so much worried about resale value at this time as we tend to buy new then drive it a long time (the VW replaced a 2005 Dodge Magnum R/T AWD I drove for 10 years / 191,000 miles...).

Nick

 

[Industrial Toys]

Are we talking American VW CEOs or German ones? Germans are so straight laced and afraid of the law that I find this almost impossible to believe. And tend to be eco-freaks to boot!

They should re-open alcatraz, just for white collar criminals.

 

[sd455dan]

I wouldn't bet on it. It's one thing to produce a faulty product and take insufficient measures to correct it, and another to deliberately plot and carry out a plan to circumvent the law.

的t sounds pretty damning from what EPA said, said Carl Tobias, a products-liability law professor at the University of Richmond in Virginia. 的 think they need to be worried about more than just the fines.

I suspect this administration will go after them and someone will face prison time. Like we used to say, every company has at least one VP whose sole responsibility is to go to jail.

I also suspect there will be some discontent among those who are complying with the law; cheaters put the rest at a competitive disadvantage. Environmental requirements are often extremely complex, and in the early days some companies didn't take them seriously enough and ended up paying huge fines for their neglect, but it's not the same as intentionally circumventing the law.







Pontiac got nailed for a similar type violation on Super Duty 455s and had to change the engines actual paint color after the engines in compliance were produced. The egr system timed out after a few seconds and restored some performance...


PMD played games to get the Super Duty a smog legal status.
Originally, a camshaft with .480" inches of lift was planned and indeed this engine seemingly passed the emissions tests, as the duration of the tests lasted 50 seconds.

Pontiac developed an EGR system that would only be activated for 53 seconds of run time, enough of a cushion to allow for production variances.

The EPA found out and decided this little variation wasn't quite in the spirit of the law so the approval was revoked-

and Pontiac set out to re-engineer the SD so it would be legal again. Carburetion changes were required, but the biggest "take-away" was a new camshaft, now limited to .410" of valve lift.
Not quite what had been promised, losing 20 horsepower, but Pontiac could have easily given up on the whole project, and the Trans Am world would have been without one of the greatest supercars of all times.

As a result of the re-certification process, deliveries of the SD-455's were held until April of 1973.



The EPA was not amused- even back then...

 

[Garandman]

...

Why do I get the feeling some of these stories are exaggerated?
Do they really spew as much as 40 times as much pollution as allowed?
All the stories are very thin on details and no description of what is actually "switched".

I drive a VW, but gas. I was tempted to buy the diesel, there's still a few 300,000- 500,000 mile VW diesel's from the 80's around. It would be nice to have a 300,000 mile engine, but the only problem (besides EPA emissions) is that now days those diesel engines have a 75,000 mile life turbo.

I've owned five gas VAG vehicles and got rid of them with well under 100,000 miles. My 1979 Scirocco had four fuse blocks in 42,000 miles. Germans learned electronics from the British....

Volkswagen is #1 in the world and #12 in the U.S. - before this happened.