Wal-Mart meat!

[LD1]

And if Walmart we're at union.....how would that help you make a living?

If you are a member of a local union, as a pipe fitter, welder, millwright, electrician, etc.....that's one thing.

Having a union at your fixed place of employment because of some false pretenses that they are there to protect you against the evil company.....totally different.

I have worked at factory's that have union, and ones that do not. Non-union is much better. For starters I don't have to give up $50/month in dues that does absolutely nothing for me. It pays better and better benefits. And overall the whole atmosphere is much more pleasant. I know if I screw up I'll be diciplined. If I do good ill be rewarded.

In the union places, everyone gets paid the same if you hold the same job title. You don't make more if you Excell at your job and are better than the guy next to you. Likewise you don't make less if you are a lazy worthless ignorant worker either. So there is no incentive to give a *****. Nothing to strive for, no reason to better ones self. And heaven forbid some "old timer" saw you talking to management about anything other than work. Because management is the devil out to get everyone.

Years ago unions (in the workplace setting) were respected and served a purpose. And if a worker was a worthless lazy piece of trash that made the union look bad, the company didn't have to worry about how to terminate a union employee. Because the union had the balls to do it themselves. Not the case anymore.

IMO, unions have no business in the workplace. And especially with govt stuff like teachers, police, etc.

Yes they still have a purpose as I mentioned earlier, where people work out of a union hall and travel, like Ironworkers, pipe fitter, millwrights, electricians, etc.

So it's not a simple black and white pro-union vs anti-union IMO. Thus my statement that I am not really for or against unions. Because it all depends on just what union we are talking about.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Union Carpenter, here... and you are right, some things are good... some are bad. Just like everything else in the world. And, for the record, we do not shop at Wallyworld. Never have, never will. I spend my money where I choose.

 

[jack707]

You people are forgetting union had workers rights put in place for you non union workers so remember that . And how are unions hurting you people? Unions brought good pay other wise owners of company's would pay you crap! And no breaks I just lunch in a 12 or 14 he. Day and count the time you left your work station for water or bathroom . I agree workers should not be protected in govt.

 

[LD1]

You people are forgetting union had workers rights put in place for you non union workers so remember that . And how are unions hurting you people? Unions brought good pay other wise owners of company's would pay you crap! And no breaks I just lunch in a 12 or 14 he. Day and count the time you left your work station for water or bathroom . I agree workers should not be protected in govt.

Sounds just like all the old pro-union workers I have been around. Patting yourselves on the back like we should be so great ful for all you did for us blah blah blah. And how poorly we would be paid and how horrible out eployers would be if it weren't for you.

Go preach that BS to some other youngster cause I ain't buying.

I have paid my dues to a union for many years at.a few different places. What did it get me? First union got me laid off. Because rather than the company getting to keep the workers that we're skilled and productive in the area that was needed, the selection process for where the ax fell was simple...seniority. so some skill-less lazy unproductive worker got to keep his job simply because he started before me and I was on the street.
This same.place is the place my father retired from. And I have many friends that still work at this factory. Last contract...company got everything they wanted. Union rolled over. No double time on Sundays or holidays, no notice required to force OT (used to be 2 days), no more 5 week vacation to 20yr employees and 6 week vacation to 30 year emps. Limit 4 now. Can now force.both Saturday AND Sunday where as before Sunday was always optional, pay freeze for 2 years, etc. Union rolled because company threatened closure.

Second time around, union got the plant closed. Company had 18-20 locations in the states. 4 union rest non. Lost a big contract and decision made to close 4 plants. Guess which 4.

And at both those jobs, it was stressful. Too much us (union) vs them (company) mentality.

So yeah, unions once had there place in a factory setting. But that time has passed. If you work at a fixed place, like a factory, retail (Walmart) restaurant, etc. A union is worthless.

Skilled trade working out of a hall.....different story.

 

[jack707]

Sounds just like all the old pro-union workers I have been around. Patting yourselves on the back like we should be so great ful for all you did for us blah blah blah. And how poorly we would be paid and how horrible out eployers would be if it weren't for you.

Go preach that BS to some other youngster cause I ain't buying.

I have paid my dues to a union for many years at.a few different places. What did it get me? First union got me laid off. Because rather than the company getting to keep the workers that we're skilled and productive in the area that was needed, the selection process for where the ax fell was simple...seniority. so some skill-less lazy unproductive worker got to keep his job simply because he started before me and I was on the street.
This same.place is the place my father retired from. And I have many friends that still work at this factory. Last contract...company got everything they wanted. Union rolled over. No double time on Sundays or holidays, no notice required to force OT (used to be 2 days), no more 5 week vacation to 20yr employees and 6 week vacation to 30 year emps. Limit 4 now. Can now force.both Saturday AND Sunday where as before Sunday was always optional, pay freeze for 2 years, etc. Union rolled because company threatened closure.

Second time around, union got the plant closed. Company had 18-20 locations in the states. 4 union rest non. Lost a big contract and decision made to close 4 plants. Guess which 4.

And at both those jobs, it was stressful. Too much us (union) vs them (company) mentality.

So yeah, unions once had there place in a factory setting. But that time has passed. If you work at a fixed place, like a factory, retail (Walmart) restaurant, etc. A union is worthless.

Skilled trade working out of a hall.....different story.

Ok man what ever you say you delusion old man

 

[LD1]

Not a delusion.

Keep drinking your union koolaide thinking they are doing so much for you.

If you work out of a hall....they might be
If you work at a factory type or similar setting that has a local union established, the only benefit you get is job protection if you are a lazy worker.

What type of union do you belong to? (Not a rhetorical question)

I never did like paying my union dues just so they could give million to a candidate I won't support

 

[jack707]

Let it go you lost two union jobs get over it!. It will just make you a bitter person. I'm in field construction it I is a lot different then being in a shop. I have been a union Boilermaker sincere 2002 and lived a very good life all my trucks,tractor and car are paid off.

 

[jack707]

 

[LD1]

I'm not bitter. Nothing to let go.

It's clear we are talking about two different union types.

In your field of work, and similar skilled trades (millwright, electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, etc) I understand the benefit of a union In my line of work, I deal with union contractors of many professions.

It's totally different in a "shop" setting and having a union.

If you were to work in a union factory "shop" setting for more than a few months I thin you would understand fully what I am talking about.

A "shop" union is much closer in similarity to the likes fo teachers, police, autoworkers, etc unions. And nothing at all like working out of a hall like yourself.

And all this talk about unions and wages....it all comes full circle.

That's one economic principal that I never could wrap my head around. INFLATION.

We all want raises. Great. More money. Then all our employers raise the cost of the products we make to cover costs (inflation). Then we want another raise (cost of living increase), the companies raise prices again.

It's a never ending cycle and are we every really gaining anything?

Average car prices are....say....25000 today. Think about when an average car was 1/10th of that. Yep...average wages were also 1/10th. Same for just about everything.

Numbers and zeros and dollar amounts are all relative.

You know, with stock prices, usually once they get so high they split 2:1 or something. Maybe we should do the same thing with money. Let's move the decimal place one digit. A $20/hr job becomes a $2/hr job. A $200,000 home is now $20,000. A $25,000 car becomes becomes $2,500 etc etc.

Hey, at least it would make the penny relevant again and we can stop debating weather or not it should be done away with

 

[jack707]

I'm not bitter. Nothing to let go.

It's clear we are talking about two different union types.

In your field of work, and similar skilled trades (millwright, electrician, plumber, pipe fitter, etc) I understand the benefit of a union In my line of work, I deal with union contractors of many professions.

It's totally different in a "shop" setting and having a union.

If you were to work in a union factory "shop" setting for more than a few months I thin you would understand fully what I am talking about.

A "shop" union is much closer in similarity to the likes fo teachers, police, autoworkers, etc unions. And nothing at all like working out of a hall like yourself.

And all this talk about unions and wages....it all comes full circle.

That's one economic principal that I never could wrap my head around. INFLATION.

We all want raises. Great. More money. Then all our employers raise the cost of the products we make to cover costs (inflation). Then we want another raise (cost of living increase), the companies raise prices again.

It's a never ending cycle and are we every really gaining anything?

Average car prices are....say....25000 today. Think about when an average car was 1/10th of that. Yep...average wages were also 1/10th. Same for just about everything.

Numbers and zeros and dollar amounts are all relative.

You know, with stock prices, usually once they get so high they split 2:1 or something. Maybe we should do the same thing with money. Let's move the decimal place one digit. A $20/hr job becomes a $2/hr job. A $200,000 home is now $20,000. A $25,000 car becomes becomes $2,500 etc etc.

Hey, at least it would make the penny relevant again and we can stop debating weather or not it should be done away with

I hear ya! Every time we get a raise in pay out dues go up a dollar!!!!!. The man no one likes is Newton Jones he is stealing money from locals in dues and field dues the man is a worm he took over for daddy and even the Fed's were investigation him and the Intl.