Water for outside hockey rink (Need help)

[gogojuice]

I'm not opposed to 250 ft off hose. That is a lot of hose.

Remember.. it can NOT stay outside because it will freeze. The hose I have at -5 becomes almost brittle like is not pliable. I somehow have to get this hose inside the house, keep it warm, or find another option.
I must be doing something wrong lol.

One of my friends suggested plumbing a hot water line on the edge of the house. Filling a plastic drum, transporting it via trailer / wagon etc.. and then using a sump pump for pressure running off the tractor battery. I need a bit more pressure than gravity for the resurfacer to work.
If there is extra water.. dump it and then restart. The hot water should last long enough and then just bring in the sump pump to the house to stay ice free. That may be easier to bring in the house than 250 ft of hose.

Appreciate your thoughts.

 

[kevinwak]

I'm not opposed to 250 ft off hose. That is a lot of hose. Remember.. it can NOT stay outside because it will freeze. The hose I have at -5 becomes almost brittle like is not pliable. I somehow have to get this hose inside the house, keep it warm, or find another option. I must be doing something wrong lol. One of my friends suggested plumbing a hot water line on the edge of the house. Filling a plastic drum, transporting it via trailer / wagon etc.. and then using a sump pump for pressure running off the tractor battery. I need a bit more pressure than gravity for the resurfacer to work. If there is extra water.. dump it and then restart. The hot water should last long enough and then just bring in the sump pump to the house to stay ice free. That may be easier to bring in the house than 250 ft of hose. Appreciate your thoughts.

hauling water in a drum would be slow. You look like you have lots of experience in building a rink, so are probably aware of how many hours went into it. For every hour with a hose on the old rink you now have to spend and hour filling your drum for the new one and a second hour emptying it once at the rink, plus some minutes for transport. I think simplest and frost efficient solution is either a long hose, or a buried water line. How many years are you planning on building a rink at the further location, if it is just once buried isn't worth it, but if you intend to do this year I a me year out for ten years it might be worth the effort to wind a trench below the frontline and around the trees to get to the new location. You could then bring water, power and even compressed air out to the rink. Make the waterline switchable back at the house to allow with hot or cold water.
On another note there are heat traced hoses available from farm supply stores. I think they are pricey.

 

[gogojuice]

Thanks Kevin,

Perhaps I should clear something up.

This is NOT for the INITIAL FILL. I will run a hose out there, or get a pumper truck to dump water. I lay tarps down. In the past I just run a hose. Once its running its not going to freeze.
My concern was after the boys chew up the ice. I shouldn't need the same amount. Otherwise you would be bang on. It would take forever to get it done.

 

[kevinwak]

Thanks Kevin, Perhaps I should clear something up. This is NOT for the INITIAL FILL. I will run a hose out there, or get a pumper truck to dump water. I lay tarps down. In the past I just run a hose. Once its running its not going to freeze. My concern was after the boys chew up the ice. I shouldn't need the same amount. Otherwise you would be bang on. It would take forever to get it done.

on that note the local rec board once home build a zamboni for their outdoor rink. It was something that could be pretty easily done if you had welding skills. I wish I had a picture of it... It consisted of a square steal tank, about 30-40 gallons, home,are out of scrap plates of steal. This was mounted on skis and had a long handle on the front, similar to a kids wagon. The handle had a tee at the end so two people could pull it. Out the back the water pipe came out and went to a distribution bar, this was about six feet long and eight inches above the ice with holes drilled every few inches. They hung burlap sacks on this bar and drug the thing across the rink and smoothed the ice. Now to the most important feature. In the welded steel tank there was a pipe running horizontally through it from one end to the other., about 4-6" Diameter. In this pipe they would put a tiger torch to keep the water hot. I was a kid when this was around, but I remember it being cumbersome and hard to move and they barely used it. What if you just went with your plan of hauling water with the tractor and using a small electric pump, but instead of buying/finding a tank of plastic, why not build one it of metal that has a pipe through it to put a torch to keep the water warm. Just realized you said you might use a sump pump, do you have power or a generator it the rink site. Maybe just one length of heated hose is then a good option. If you have power maybe you could just add an electric stock tank heater to the water tank to keep it warm while you work. I haul water to my house, the biggest freezing issue isn't the tanks or the hose, but the valve. Will your water tank be on a trailer, maybe a little A frame tarp shelter over the tank and an electric heater, just to keep the tank and valving warm? Or electric heat tape on the valve? Just throwing out ideas, lots of them may suck.

 

[gogojuice]

Hey.. No bad ideas lol. I appreciate them all.

Thanks for pointing out the "sump pump" It should read submersible pump. I agree I think the faucet will freeze.. so I would just pump it out.

I can get a 55 GAL drum for around 15$. Put it on my trailer and done. Then connect the pump to the tractor for power.

This is what I am using to smooth my ice


I just attach a ball valve at the top and a quick disconnect and I'm good to flood.

I was just hoping that there was some method of storing a large volume of water outside that wouldn't freeze so I could use it for flooding purposes..

 

[kevinwak]

Hey.. No bad ideas lol. I appreciate them all. Thanks for pointing out the "sump pump" It should read submersible pump. I agree I think the faucet will freeze.. so I would just pump it out. I can get a 55 GAL drum for around 15$. Put it on my trailer and done. Then connect the pump to the tractor for power. This is what I am using to smooth my ice <img src="http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=481133"/> I just attach a ball valve at the top and a quick disconnect and I'm good to flood. I was just hoping that there was some method of storing a large volume of water outside that wouldn't freeze so I could use it for flooding purposes..

well, the larger the volume/tank the longer it will take to freeze. When I hail water to home at -40 in a 500 gallon tank I don't hesitate to stop at the grocery store or for lunch on the way home.

 

[gdicks]

Man, I read this entire thread looking selfishly for some pearls of wisdom because I have been exactly where you are. 30 x 60 rink currently about 200 feet from the house but Ive had it as far away as 450feet.

I've thought about this from every possible angle and concluded that hoses are pretty well the only reasonable solution. I take them out and run them to the rink as needed and then coil them back up when done. Its a Pain because on any night that its cold enough to flood, (I like -15 or lower) the hoses freeze up pretty fast when the water stops flowing. Worse perhaps for me because my rink is also down a heavy grade from my house. I've dismissed bringing water to the site with the tractor because it would require keeping a path open all winter and that is more work than running hoses every time I need them. One thing I do though that helps storage is coiling the hoses into a large garbage container that I have attached on a makeshift sled. keeps the hoses contained in the garage when not in use, and keeps the residual water / snow melt off the garage floor. When its time to flood, I just push the garbage can ( on sled ) out to the water spigot, attach the end and gently push the sleigh to the rink. If I've done a half descent job coiling it in there it usually come out pretty well as the sleigh moves down the grade. Its a bit more work coiling it up while coming back up the hill though. Perhaps with some thinking you could improve on this. I've toyed with the idea of using an electric motor on a large capacity garden hose reel, and letting the whole thing pull itself up the hill as it coils, would just need to walk alongside to keep it straight. Maybe Ill prototype it this winter

I've chosen to embrace the work involved and as someone else has said it is somewhat therapeutic, especially on the clear starry, or moonlight winter nights! Doesn't seem like work really. Plus the fun that the neighbour kids get from it makes it worth the extra effort.

One of these with an old pair of skis attached opposite to the direction of the wheels would make pretty quick work of hose storage if you are on flat ground.

Yardworks All Steel 4-Wheel Rolling Hose Cart | Canadian Tire

 

[tcartwri]

Man, I read this entire thread looking selfishly for some pearls of wisdom because I have been exactly where you are. 30 x 60 rink currently about 200 feet from the house but Ive had it as far away as 450feet.

I've thought about this from every possible angle and concluded that hoses are pretty well the only reasonable solution. I take them out and run them to the rink as needed and then coil them back up when done. Its a Pain because on any night that its cold enough to flood, (I like -15 or lower) the hoses freeze up pretty fast when the water stops flowing. Worse perhaps for me because my rink is also down a heavy grade from my house. I've dismissed bringing water to the site with the tractor because it would require keeping a path open all winter and that is more work than running hoses every time I need them. One thing I do though that helps storage is coiling the hoses into a large garbage container that I have attached on a makeshift sled. keeps the hoses contained in the garage when not in use, and keeps the residual water / snow melt off the garage floor. When its time to flood, I just push the garbage can ( on sled ) out to the water spigot, attach the end and gently push the sleigh to the rink. If I've done a half descent job coiling it in there it usually come out pretty well as the sleigh moves down the grade. Its a bit more work coiling it up while coming back up the hill though. Perhaps with some thinking you could improve on this. I've toyed with the idea of using an electric motor on a large capacity garden hose reel, and letting the whole thing pull itself up the hill as it coils, would just need to walk alongside to keep it straight. Maybe Ill prototype it this winter

If you have a slope away from the house, I would just leave the hose on the ground. When you're done flooding, disconnect it at the house to let air into the line. Lift the hose up over your head and walk back towards the rink. That's the way I do mine.

 

[gdicks]

If you have a slope away from the house, I would just leave the hose on the ground. When you're done flooding, disconnect it at the house to let air into the line. Lift the hose up over your head and walk back towards the rink. That's the way I do mine.

I've tried that before but there are a couple of dips in the slope where water will eventually gather and freeze. Probably wouldnt take much antifreeze poured in the line to solve that though....

Im thinking the compressed air blow out after use with a little antifreeze added for good measure might work for leaving the hose out under the snow all winter....I wonder if you could maintain some air pressure in the hose when not in use to keep it from collapsing under the snow too...

I really dislike coiling up those hoses.....

Figured Id throw up a couple of snaps of our rink. Rink Guys appreciate other rinks I think?