Water Garden/Coi Pond

   / Water Garden/Coi Pond #11  
Timber,

You really know what your talking about!! This is gonna be more fun than I had hoped for since a person whith knowledge and experience will do things for a reason.

It seems that most garden ponds I see are not very well thought out. It takes allot of consideration to build a quality pond that will perform year round and support the fish and plants without turning into a green nightmare.

Thanks
Eddie
 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond
  • Thread Starter
#12  
Thank you Eddie,
One of the questions I have for myself is if I am going to put in a margin for marginal plantings, a bog area. I am sure I will but it’s in the thinking out process. This garden is going to have 2 pools. The larger pool that is all ready started in these pictures and a smaller pool that will be elevated and built in around the largest stones in the pictures opposite the pool house. The filters will be on the back side of those stones hidden out of sight. My 1st gardens I didn't know anything about plants growing at different depths or even what a margin was. The elevated pool is where the waterfall will flow out of. The larger the pool the nicer the fall. What you want is like bowel to flow over rather than a cup if you can kind of get what I mean. There are many different kinds of water gardens, Formal gardens that are very geometric but I like a natural organic looking garden. You have to be careful with stones too. It is tempting to put gravel in the bottom but it give a place for bacteria to grow the can harm plans and fish. I am fortunate that have a lot of good material to work with hear. I have large stone all over my property. I think if you use too much small stone it doesn’t quite look natural. There are a lot of components to a water garden and if you don't balance them it can look odd.

 
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   / Water Garden/Coi Pond #13  
Timber,

For me, I like the plants just as much as the fish, but from what I've heard and seen, koi don't do well with plants. I know you can put rocks around your pots and even use wire to keep them from destroying the plants, but it seems that sooner or later, they will destroy them. If you decide to put some shelfs in, remember the height of your pots. Having a shelf that's a foot deep isn't going to be very good if your using one gallon pots and they are a foot tall.

As for pots, I've found that those square plastic storage tubs work allot better than any of the ones they sell at the pond supply stores. I found that the roots will grow out of those mess sided pots and grow into anything and everythign else. I had to go pull them out of a clients very small pond one time. It was a huge nightmare because they had all grown together. The tubs some people put in there sink for washing dishes works really well too.

The advantages to the sqaure tubs is they fit together real good in the pond. They are bigger than the fish store pots and will alloy more plants or healthier plants to grow. And most important, you can pick them up a year later, or whenever you need to thing them out. They have handles on either end!!!!

If you're set on koi, than plants are just going to be a problem. But if you just want an ornamental pond with fish in it, than common gold fish are great. They will grow to over a foot long if there is enough space for them, they cost almost nothing, and if a racoon eats one or two, your not out very much. They also reproduce like crazy and it's not all that bad to have a few eaten by the local wildlife.

Koi also require better water quality than gold fish. More oxygen and they are more likely to get parasites or sick. That means more hours running the pump and checking water PH. Of course, with the new pool, it won't be that much more to check the water in both of them at the same time.

The thing I enjoy the most about building an ornamental pond is arranging the rocks for the waterfall. Getting it just right is a work of art. A little angle one way or another can make all the difference.

Did you mention lighting? I found that a few spotlights on the waterfall at night time realy adds to the beauty of it. I'd even go so far as to say it's a must have feature!!! hahaha

Eddie
 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Oh yea I have had Koi and gold fish comets and even the bubbly eyed ones. They are very destructive. They are great for making cloudy water with plant dirt. I find a clay mix and clay on the top slows them down on rooting out the plants. Even fountains never last with them. It is like the line up and take turns at whacking it with there tails till it falls over Koi play and that is there attraction. In the winter I let a small pump run a water jet under the surface so I get like a 4 inch fountain bubble running now my last pond had about 120 some odd fish in it. I am not kidding you. They would line up like kids at a carnival ride to swim over the bubble for hours on end. I do mostly marginal plants and floaters. Deep water plants make a mess of the pond. You have to put in an area were the fish can't go to have deep water planting. I do have some underwater lighting but I am not a big fan of it. It is nice some times but it is very dull and it makes the water look cloudy. I do however love direct lighting and I believe that is what you mean. Yes I do plan on that but I am a ways from that part now. When I moved to this place hear just over a year ago now I left my fish behind. Sadly someone damaged my pond liner and I went there 1 day to find them all in 4 inches of water. I panicked and brought them all hear and put them in a child’s swimming pool. Well the stress of the move and who knows how many days in very hot puddle of water took its toll I lost 12 of my biggest fish. Some as big as 14 inches that I put in a less than 2 inches. It broke my heart to watch them die 1 at a time. I took them to a local pond near me and let them all go. I dumped them into the water and they went into the mud like darts. I had to go in and pull them out and send them on. I sat and watched them swim off through the weeds. I collected all my tubs and was getting ready to leave and about 20 of them came back to were I let them go and just looked at me and then they were gone. Dam fish made cry like I lost a puppy
 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Well I just ordered the liner and the underlay. & 100 feet of tubing. That was another grand the wife freaked out on that. I did some more work to it last night but the pictures were too dark. It is raining hear today so I am sure it will not be workable tonight. I did cover it but it is raining pretty hard. I will be covering every night from hear on in to hold back the frost. I still have a couple of weeks before the liner will go in. The electrician was hear yesterday and pulled 3 lines to the pool house. 1 is for the pool, 1 is for the pool house and Beer fridge, and 1 is dedicated to the water garden. He still has to tie it in to the panel but the hard part is done

 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond #16  
I was thinking about koi or goldfish to control lotus that have taken over my pond. Just pulling them up doesn't seem to work. (Massachusetts doesn't allow grasscarp.) Think they'd adapt to this half acre pond? Thats the desicated lotus sticking up ut of the water.
 

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   / Water Garden/Coi Pond
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Koi would thrive in that pond. My dad started out with five 8" inch Koi. Within 5 years those 5 were 30" and there were hundreds of smaller Koi of all sizes
 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond #18  
Koi wont have any effect on you plants because you have a dirt bottom. Unlike an ornamental pond with a liner, the fish have the entire pond bottom to tear up, not just a pot that holds a plant.

Lotus drop thousands of seeds and once established will require poison to get rid of. You don't just poison the pond, but you have to get the plants at a certain time of the year. I'm guessing spring, but I'm not positive. Nor do I know the names of effective poisons.

Another more expensive and dificult solution is to drain the pond and remove the bottom foot or two of soil. You have to either kill the plants, or remove them and there seeds.

Good luck,
Eddie
 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond
  • Thread Starter
#19  
I personally don't have any experience with that plant material. I know poison doesn't discriminate though. I guess the thing to do would be go over to Pond Boss and pick there brains. The links are all over the sight. If you are going to go that route wait to put fish in till you have that issue under control
 
   / Water Garden/Coi Pond #20  
Timber,

Not sure how much you want to get into your pond. Koiphen.com is a site that has a TON of information on Koi and pond building. If you want a real Koi pond you should probably look into a bottom drain for sure and it probably should be deeper. The people over there are pretty into it and might go a bit overboard but they sure have nice ponds. They have a specific forum for pond building also - Pond Construction and Filtration - Koiphen.com

FWIW, Nathan
 

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