water heater question

[WTA]

We currently have two BIG water heaters in our house. One of them is leaking and we have a remodeling project going on in the other bathroom. The room right next to the bathroom we are working on is the laundry room and we are moving that to another room in the back of the house. The laundry room wall is coming out to open up more room for a big walk in shower and new vanity for the wife.
I am wanting to take the water heater out of that laundry room also and move it to where the leaking one is.

It will be 75 feet away from the farthest point where we need hot water then and I had planned a 1 inch copper pipe under the house that is insulated to hopefully keep the heat in. Do any of you think this is too far away from the master bath? I took Navy showers for way too long and don't like the idea of cold showers much any more.
We're going to need 1 inch pipe I figured for the new shower as it's going to be a water hogging big fancy one about 10X10 feet with multiple heads in it in the ceiling and in the walls. I'll probably end up having to turn the well on manual control to make it work but I don't care.

I'm working on radiant in floor heat for it too. I haven't decided if I'm going to use the hot water main or do a split system with antifreeze in it and a heat exchanger. I think if I use hot water straight off the water heater with a simple thermostat controlled recirc system then it will solve any problems waiting on the hot water. At least in the winter.

 

[js5020]

I have a bathroom that is 65 feet from the water heater,full basement. I ran a 3/4 "trunk" line and then a 3/8 branch to the fixtures,, my thought at the time I wanted to be able to have everthing full on and have no problems supplying hot water to each of them,,, well I can run them all full on no problems there,,, but the hot part is a different story. The water in the trunk gets cold even though it's insulated and because it is a big line it takes several minutes to clear the cold out,,, but once it clears things are good. I have thought about putting in an on demand heater for that bath to resolve the issue.

 

[kennyd]

I think you may have a problem supplying that much water to the shower from your well. Those big multiple shower head setups usually require a lot of pressure and flow. Better do some research before you start spending money on that...

As for the distance, I would suggest plumbing in a return line on the hot water side and installing a circulator pump at the water heater-you will then have instant hot water. The pump can put on a programmable timer so it's not running all the time.

 

[kenmac]

You won't get any more water from a shower head that the head is designed to flow. With 1 ' pipe you won't get anymore pressure just little more volume. 3/4 pipe should be just fine. You may have to wait a few min. for the hot water to reach your bathroom that far away. Insulating the pipe will help. If it turns out to be a big problem, you could add a circulation punp for that room that will keep the water hot to the fixtures in that room

 

[Diesel-ME]

Perhaps a booster pump may be needed to supply the pressure for the fancy showers..???.. Of course as noted earlier you would need sufficient capacity from the well too.

 

[ByronBob]

I only have 10 feet of line from the heater to the shower and we have to wait a minute also. I think your going to have to wait a bit before entering the shower to let it heat up.

If money isn't an issue then get the instant heat units or put a small 10 gallon electric unit outside the shower area. I see more houses going to these little guys under the sink and such.

 

[WTA]

Our well is a 5 horse three phase sub pump meant for irrigation. I've got 2 inch line coming off it to the tank and to 10 acres worth of risers. There is a 1 1/2 in line coming into the house from the tank. It can handle the pressure and volume. I just might have to turn it on if we turn on all the nozzles. I have fixed those low flows before too. I hate them things! I swear these new ones are worse than those hand held button operated things on ships.

We're also in the process of adding in a gray water holding tank with a pump for irrigating the yard and trees. I won't be wasting water at all.

 

[Kays Supply]

I have been installing the type showers you describe. It is strange, the " Greener" the news gets ,the the more wasteful the public seems to get. I have found on city water, and water saver faucets, you are better off to install a separate mixing valve for each different outlet. One for the over head, one for the body sprays ( check flow rates, you may only be able to use two at a time per mixing valve) and one for anything else you plan to use at the same time. The single valve , diverter system has let me down several times. The heads can be bored out for flow but the mixing valve is still Government mandated to 2.5 gal. Your multiple uses will go over that. If you go with one mixing valve 3/4" supply is more than enough. I also second the motion for a recirc pump to maintain hot water to your bath.

 

[Sigarms]

The one question that needs to be answered before any "planning" can be done is what is the maximum flow rate in the house?

You can expect to spend some big bucks if you want to keep hot water going on a non stop basis.

 

[Lasgambler]

you are better off to install a separate mixing valve for each different outlet. One for the over head, one for the body sprays ( check flow rates, you may only be able to use two at a time per mixing valve) and one for anything else you plan to use at the same time. The single valve , diverter system has let me down several times. I also second the motion for a recirc pump to maintain hot water to your bath.

Good Advice from Kays Supply. I too, Have installed the overhead Rain, with Bodyspray and a conventional Showerhead. I put in three separate mixing valves. The owners are HAPPY.

 

[dbdartman]

As for getting hot water to the bathroom that far from the hot water source: There is a pump system available that goes in,or as close as possible to, the bathroom. Suction side is on the hot water line, discharge on the cold water line & it has a heat activated switch on the hot line just before the pump. Before you fire up the shower you push the button to activate the pump. It draws hot water from the tank & discharges the cold water in the line back into the tank. When the hot water gets to the bathroom the heat activated switch kicks the pump off. Better than a recirc system because you're not running the pump unless you need hot water, plus you waste no water down the drain. I considered one of these systems when I built the new house 5-6 years ago. The furthest bathroom from the hot water source is just under 50', 3/4" main with 1/2" feeds. Takes about 90 seconds to get hot water to the furthest shower. For me, the circulator system wasn't worth the expense. If you're dead set on using a 1" supply that far away, it may be worth the expense to you as that's quite a bit of water to have to move. Personally I'd scale it back to 3/4".

 

[Sigarms]

As for getting hot water to the bathroom that far from the hot water source: There is a pump system available that goes in,or as close as possible to, the bathroom. Suction side is on the hot water line, discharge on the cold water line & it has a heat activated switch on the hot line just before the pump. Before you fire up the shower you push the button to activate the pump.

I assume you're talking about the Metlund system.

There is also a motion detector that you can instal instead of a "push button" to activate the pump.

Not cheap compared to a circ pump, but would save a lot of money if you had a water bill.

 

[Doc_Bob]

As for the distance, I would suggest plumbing in a return line on the hot water side and installing a circulator pump at the water heater-you will then have instant hot water. The pump can put on a programmable timer so it's not running all the time.

Where can I get such a pump?
Bob

 

[kenmac]

should be able to get a pump at any plumbing supply place. H.D., Lowe's for the timer or electrical supply place

 

[kennyd]

Where can I get such a pump?
Bob

Yup, plumbing supply house is the best...They do not waste any water either, I am not sure what dbdartman meant when he said this:

Better than a recirc system because you're not running the pump unless you need hot water, plus you waste no water down the drain.

It's a closed loop system that will save water since you do not have run the water waiting for it to get hot. The down side is that you have to run a extra pipe to the bathroom for the return, and that may not be easy in a existing structure.

 

[anojones]

We have a recirc system that runs the whole length of the house that is run by a TACO pump near the hot water tank. If runs 24 hrs but I think they make timer based ones as well to save some money by turning it off at night etc. I've had to replace the pump once when the system got contaminated and it's a little load (can hear it in the plumbing in the master bath). We get pretty much instant hotwater even at the fartherest outlet. This isn't a bad way to go if your putting in pipe anyway. I've seen the poin of service recirc pumps at costco- it seemed like a bit of a pain to reach under the sink and press a button to get hot water and there must be a delay for the warm water to get there- so that saves water going down the drain but not time. If your on a well and not paying for water directly, you could accomplish the same thing by running the water down the drain until warm- wastes water, but the pump uses electricity- so energy/water is lost somewhere. It would seem a 110V point of service heater might not be a bad idea if there is one that could get the temp up pretty quickly. I think I'll google for a timer for my system.

 

[kennyd]

Anojones, Why not put a timer on the pump you have? Would be very easy to do, and not expensive at all.

 

[kenmac]

These circulating pumps are nice but, if the water heater is gas your gas bill will increase from always heating the cold water that is returned. If your w.h. is elec. the same will be true. It will cost you to have hot water come out of the fixture when you turn it on

 

[EddieWalker]

I've been thinking of taking advantage of the heat in my attic space. I have a cold water line that crosses over the top of my shop to a spicket. When I turn on that water line, it's too hot to touch. That's free heat that I'm getting from the sun. I think I should be able to the same thing with a line that loops around my attic with cold water before it gets to my hot water heater. I haven't heard a good reason why this won't work, just that nobody has done it.

Instead of going under your foundation where the tempature will be constant and cooler then what you are heating the water, which will lower the temapture of the water in the lines. Can you go into the attic and take advantage of the heat from the sun? I know this isn't a year round free-be, but for most of the year, attic spaces are in the 120 to 140 range.

Eddie