Water powered generator.

[rodsauder]

I have recently purchased a property and it has a stream running on it. It is spring fed and starts on the property. I was wondering if it is feasible to have a water powered generator , I have no idea about these things but I do know the stream runs about 40 gpm where I was planning on building a small water wheel. I will build the water wheel regardless as I just want to. I just moved in September and I know it runs year round. Any input is appreciated.

 

[k0ua]

I don't know much about the subject, but perhaps the website would help a bit.

Microhydropower Systems | Department of Energy

 

[Egon]

Water wheel sounds interesting.

For power generation
it may be advisable to run pipe to a small turbine etc. this should give the maximum head to work with.

Just thoughts.

Rules & regulations ??

 

[Ed of all trades]

It takes a bit more fall in the stream to run a wheel than the micro hydro's but both will work. the micro hydro unit will be more efective.

 

[rodsauder]

The water wheel is for asthetics, if I can generate any power ,that is a bonus. That website is informative. Thanks KOua

 

[6011Artist]

I don't know about powering a generator but if the spring head is on your property, you can cap it or drive a pipe down in it so you can pipe it to a more suitable location or to get it up high enough to turn a top of the ground water wheel. I have a buddy that has one his granddad piped and it's been like that for years. After he inherited the land he built a nice pond using it to feed it. Lots of options with a spring.

 

[chim]

I discussed this topic with a guy who owns a property with a creek and a small dam. He told me he spent thousands on engineering to be told his dam isn't tall enough. He said the engineer told him he would need a minimum of 10' of head. I find that hard to believe but I'm no elec/hydro engineer. There was at least one smaller dam with a generator near here that was damaged and the generator dismantled when a flood hit in the 50's or 60's. That dam was only about 6 or 8 feet tall.

 

[ndrmyr]

Here's an interesting website:

PowerSpout - Water goes in, Power comes out

I recall seeing another turbine style where a series of venturi or funnels directed the water into a single stream increasing it's velocity and the running a generator. It didn't take much of a stream to power a house.

 

[Egon]

Here's an interesting website:

PowerSpout - Water goes in, Power comes out

I recall seeing another turbine style where a series of venturi or funnels directed the water into a single stream increasing it's velocity and the running a generator. It didn't take much of a stream to power a house.

That power spout looks a lot like a peloton water wheel.

As for potential power it's simply available head and flow. Really isn't any way to increase that unless the external conditions change. The physical power unit can be changed to make it more effient though.

 

[muddstopper]

Guide to Hydropower
read thru this guide. It has all kinds of formulas for estimateing how much power potential you will be able to generate. It will tell you how to measure flow since this measurement needs to be pretty precise.

For a generator, you can consider a regular induction ac motor. Such as you might find on a old bandsaw, washing machine, or tons of other usually discarded items. I know a guy that made a windmill and used the fan and motor out of an old air conditioner condenser. He could generate enough power to run one light bulb.

 

[Gate Lavallee]

too make somthing that you can use id say forget the 120 240 volts with regulating and frequancy cuzz these are all big money and you may find the flow will vary from hot day with sun to night fall and flow changes.....bin there done that best use for the money is big underground tank full a water and heat that sucker with all that comes out of the generator direct to heat element and forget all the fancy stuff. Could be domestic hot water......heat the garage and the house in spring fall and winter......good luck

 

[muddstopper]

http://www.who.int/management/InductionGenerators forSmallHydroSchemes.pdf

 

[beeforty]

From what I've read, it's all about how much flow and or pressure you have. Kind of like Hydraulics, you can have a massive big cylinder at low pressure or a smaller cylinder at very high pressure to provide that force. A wide paddle wheel in a slow moving stream geared to turn a genereator will equal say 100'+ of water out of a 2" pipe against a pelton water wheel spinning fast.

 

[Dongerosa]

unless you got a 5 foot of head or drop and allot of flow 50-75 gpm...your not going to create much power. then the whole ac issues...really needs to be dc, then you got the storage issue of this dc...ie battery banks, then the inverter to convert to ac. so, if you have a stream that is just flowing with not real head, hate to say it...but i believe your out of luck to power anything more than a flash light. I looked into the spiral water wheel for pumping water. Google Image Result for http://www.earthgarden.com.au/images/125waterwheel.gif

 

[muddstopper]

I am finding out it isnt as much a matter to generate the power is it is to get permission to hook it up to the grid. according to the math found int this Guide to Hydropower, I should have the capacity to generate about 17kwh of electricity, 24/7. In a net metering situation, this is way more power than we currently use, but as a stand alone system it doesnt meet our prime loads. Still, if connected to the grid using net metering, I should have excess electricity to sell back to the power company. Well, it seems the power company doent want my business, unless I am buying their power. First they require 2 meters, one for what i use and one for what I produce. No problem, but wait, I am not allowed to generate more power than I can use, and I must build my house and live in it for a year before they will conduct and audit to deteremine how big a system they will let me install. Bull hockey, You design a building along with the power system at the same times, you dont do the alternative power as a second thought sometime later one. Not to say you cant add alternative energy to an older home, just that it doesnt make sense to build a new house without considering the design aspects of any potential power source you might install later. If someone can generate more power than they use they should be allowed to do so, it cheaper on the tax payer if individuals build small , self maintained, power supply than it is for big government to build massive power stations and have the taxpayer footing the buill.

 

[6011Artist]

Just yesterday I was talking to a neighbor who is planning to build a small house and have a big pot belly stove in it to heat/cook in cold weather. I gave him the idea of the smaller micro cabin but I think he wants to build bigger. He was talking about buying a turbine, said for 5K he could go off the grid. Said he would need battery backup. I never asked him about having air conditioning, if it was in the plan but with our hot summers it would almost have to be included.

What size turbine can you buy for 5K and how much electricity will it produce?

 

[steamtrain]

This is a pretty good user group for DIY power...

Fieldlines.com: The Otherpower discussion board - Index

 

[DKCDKC]

With a small stream and minimal head, you can run a water wheel to power a bit of sculpture, etc. But you can also use an hydraulic ram system to pump the water higher. The house I grew up in used rams to provide water to all toilets in the house, and for irrigation of the lawn, etc. The water - minus the cost of the rams - was free. The rams, old school metal ones, lasted for 40 years until a major flood took them out. The stream was small and had only 5 feet of head. Most of the water went downstream, but more than enough was available for other things. I am working on a ram now for my small stream just to fill some cattle water troughs. That keeps the animals out of the creek and keeps the creek pristine.

A friend of mine who worked at a pumped storage hydro utility station, used a ram to fill a small pond up on a hill. He used it for decor and fishing, but always said he could put a turbine generator on it and get about 6 hours of good electricity out of it - lots of volume and lots of head. However, he'd have had to take a week to re-fill it. But you can get electricity out of a small stream... Just not a lot for a long time.

 

[sd455dan]

I discussed this topic with a guy who owns a property with a creek and a small dam. He told me he spent thousands on engineering to be told his dam isn't tall enough. He said the engineer told him he would need a minimum of 10' of head. I find that hard to believe but I'm no elec/hydro engineer. There was at least one smaller dam with a generator near here that was damaged and the generator dismantled when a flood hit in the 50's or 60's. That dam was only about 6 or 8 feet tall.

A friend purchased land surrounded on 3 sides by fed, forest service land . stream had over 120 feet of drop . he installed a small dam and ran one inch pipe down to a shed . Installed a pelton wheel and gm alternator, several 12 volt batteries and a large inverter. It worked so well he had me design a voltage monitoring switch that would shunt current to a 200 watt heating element installed in a gas water heater. if the the excess energy was not used the pelton wheel would run away and destroy the alternator and damage the wheel.. Even with the smallest jet in the pelton housing, the alternater produced 15 amps 24 hrs. a day 7 days a week worked great for normal house hold use up to 4000 watts @ 120 volts...
everything worked great for the 8 years I stayed in touch...
The amount of drop is the most important thing, unless you have a huge stream with unlimited water usage..and I don't believe that is common. one more thing , he always said get the water use permits started right away , many hoops to jump through...