Water Softener

[cart99]

I've got an older water softener and was thinking of replacing. I've read some things about "lossless catalyst" softeners that require neither electricity nor salt. Does anyone have any experience with these? Sounds like a typical "too good to be true" scenario, but I'd like to do as much as possible to get my electricity bill down (and not schlepping bags of salt would be nice too)

Thanks in advance.

 

[GaryQWA]

I've never heard of them, any link to a web site?

As to electrical use for a softener. You might spend a buck ninty-eight per year. About the same as a wall clock. As to salt costs, buy a correctly sized softener and your salt shouldn't be more than a fast food meal for one, once per week. And that's a lot of salt; usually here about $4.50 for a 50 lb bag of solar crystal salt.

As an example, a family of four with 55 gpg hard water and a 2.5 cuft softener with a SFR of 18 gpm would use 32 lbs a week. That hardness is very high and most folks will have much less than that. And the SFR should be more than enough for a 3.5 bathroom house.

Gary Slusser

 

[MicroPilot]

Is this what you are talking about:

non-sacrificial water softener catalyst

Seems to me to be an expensive variant to the "magnetic" water softeners. These either work great or not at all depending on who you ask.

 

[GaryQWA]

I'm sure that's it. A hyped up magnet.

I question the use of the word "softener". Water softeners actually remove hardness from water. They say:
***********
HERE IT IS AGAIN IN PLAIN ENGLISH
Water entering a SafeWater Softener will have the same Grains per Gallon hardness when leaving the softener because the water will still contain all the healthy minerals. So 20 Grains per Gallon in, 20 Grains per Gallon out.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, READINGS MAY GO UP!
Since our way of softening water also removes old scale from existing plumbing and some water-using equipment, the hardness reading leaving faucets may read 26 Grains per Gallon hardness until all the scale has been eliminated.

If your home is relatively old, this process may take several weeks of normal use.
************

They do have great marketing though.

Gary Slusser

 

[Jagmandave]

"costs a
mere $765 + $30 Shipping & Handling. This price includes a $50.00 Whole House Water Filter to be installed along with the SafeWater Softener."

Yeah........ all right...............

 

[anthonyk]

before you purchase any "magnetic" or "catalytic" system that claims to soften water, do some research. Several states have sued companies like this for false or misleading claims.
I'm an engineer with a water purification company and have actually tested several "magnetic" systems, just for my own curiosity. None of them worked. The degree of hardness at output was exactly the same as input. Many claim to "realign the magnetic domains" of calcium, but calcium is a non magnetic element.
As far as I know, there are only a few ways to soften water:
Water softeners which use either sodium chloride or potassium chloride to exchange and remove calcium carbonate and calcium and magnesium sulfate.
Reverse Osmosis which is usually used for bacterial removal and is not applicable for whole house treatment.
And lastly, distillation, usually found in commercial applications and also not applicable for whole house treatment.
Be very wary of claims that use magnetics, and ask for specific technical data such as "If I have 12 grain hardness going into your system, what will the hardness be coming out?" I've asked that question of several of those magnetic companies, but for some reason they never reply to my querry /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

good luck, anthony

 

[boustany]

One word: Scam

And one of the biggest retailers up here sells 'em.

 

[Jagmandave]

Well, their webpage claims the water may actually have a "harder" rating after their device is installed, due to "cleaning" out the calcium out of the pipes!
Yeah, right...........

I loved this quote!

The SafeWater Softener triggers the reaction that softens your water without ever really getting involved.

 

[cart99]

Thanks all, especially Gary. I had no idea how much electricity a water softener consumes. And you all pretty much confirmed my suspicions that these other systems are just more snake-oil.

Unfortunately, I still need to figure out what is consuming nearly $140/month of electricity (that is NO heat or AC running!) septic pump? well pump? old clothes dryer? I wish there was a way to meter individual appliances.

 

[Ozarker]

You can................

Watts Up? Kilowatt-Hour Meter

 

[GaryQWA]

You're welcome. Always suspect a leak in the drop pipe or water line fittings in the well or underground water line/fittings to the house when electricity use of that amount is unexplained. If it is a fitting, usually it will be broken or worn through by friction wear. A leak of that type will have the pump running constantly or at least frequently which causes higher electric bills than a pump running constantly would. That's beause of the higher amp draw at motor start up.

To find out if that is the case, look inside the pressure switch when no water is being used. If the contact points are closed, the pump is supposed to be running if the switch has power to it. This can be happening for months before it is discovered.

Gary Slusser

 

[cart99]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You're welcome. Always suspect a leak in the drop pipe or water line fittings in the well or underground water line/fittings to the house when electricity use of that amount is unexplained. If it is a fitting, usually it will be broken or worn through by friction wear. A leak of that type will have the pump running constantly or at least frequently which causes higher electric bills than a pump running constantly would. That's beause of the higher amp draw at motor start up.

To find out if that is the case, look inside the pressure switch when no water is being used. If the contact points are closed, the pump is supposed to be running if the switch has power to it. This can be happening for months before it is discovered.

Gary Slusser )</font>

Excellent, thanks Gary. I think I'll have someone come out and thoroughly check *all* the water related systems. We just moved in a few months ago, so we are still learning all these things.

 

[cart99]

THANK YOU GARY!!!

I thought some more about what you said, and then I remembered something. The last time it rained I noticed a spot next to the house (a mulched flower bed) that seemed to take a LONG time to dry, even though it was not a low spot. Well I just checked it again. Even though everything around it is bone dry (my lawn is crispy even) and although the top is dry, no more than 1/4" down that area is STILL fresh potting soil moist.

Wanna take a wild guess where the water pipe comes into the house? Yep, RIGHT THERE. I've got to get this fixed ASAP.

I never would've realized any of this if it hadn't been for your post. THANK YOU!

Long live the internet.

Russ

 

[megotatractor]

I work for a plumbing supply warehouse. the new "on demand" softeners are very salt efficient. the unit I have I fill twice a year, is that too often? Electrical use is negligable

 

[GaryQWA]

Russ, you're welcome and I'm glad to help. Are the switch contact points always closed? Does the pressure guage hold steady at a lower than cut-off setting of the switch? If so, the pump is running constantly and you can plan on the leak being somewhere around the flower bed but maybe not straight down.

As to softeners. I tell my custmers to not fill their brine tank and to check it often so they don't run the softener out of salt. I also tell them to leave a bag beside the brine tank and when they need salt, use it, then but a coupel bags and leave one on the floor. I size softeners to use high salt efficiency settings, which can be done with any softener of ether type; timer or meterd (demand). If they do run out, they have to regenerate the bed totally. Most softeners aren't set/sized to use the max salt dose per volume adn type of resin... So running out means full regeneration at max salt dose for the volume of resin at least twice to get things back where it should be. Do a search of the web for "softener sizing chart" (with the "") and find one with mention of SFR and read up on it.

Gary Slusser