OP
dodge man
Super Star Member
I agree, the clear coat is just as important to keeped cleaned and waxed. Its will look dirty and hazy after a while if you don't.
Waxes and polishes.
- Thread starter dodge man
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Okay, first of all, you fail to understand that if you properly clean and polish you finish, it will perform exactly the same way as you think it does, when you wax it. It is the silicones in 99% of these products to make application easier, that give most of the performance people attribute to the wax. These same silicones are also in most cleaning and polishing products.
This means if you do one side of the General Lee with just wax, and I clean and polish the other, the only difference when it's done is my side, since it has been properly cleaned will look and feel better. You can then apply a wax over the cleaned surface if you insist, but at that point, it is as effective a use of your time as waxing a no wax floor.
Neither wax or cleaning products will effectively protect your paint from bird droppings, or sap. Both bird droppings and sap, have chemicals in them that can actually soften hardened paint. Somehow your convinced a microscopic film of wax, (which BTW, we use chemicals of similar composition to the bird droppings and sap in the paint shop to remove waxes), will stop them from damaging the finish? The key to protecting the finish from these is simple, remove them in a reasonable amount of time.
As far as water spots go, automotive cleaning and wax products increase water beading. Water beading is what actually causes water spots. Only a totally unprotected finish, which has aged enough that all the solvents are out of it, will not bead water. And therefore, will not water spot.
As an automotive refinisher I have worked on product field testing directly with people who engineer automotive finishes. These are the people actually created and tested these products. The information I am giving you comes from them, (what do they know), and it's verified by my experience in the business.
I own a 1997 Villager with 198,000 miles on it. It has never even been washed more than once a year, let alone waxed. In 20 minutes I can run a buffer with some polish on it, and make the whole thing to look like new. How can this be, if it so desperately needed wax the last 14 years to protect it?
It's your time, and your money. The wax people aren't going to stop you, (they make a lot of money off of this), and neither will I.
OP
dodge man
Super Star Member
I agree with most of what you say. 90% of what you are doing when you wax or polish a car is just cleaning the surface, and that is what makes it looks so good. I do feel a car cleans up better if it kept waxed up and clean. Stuff just doesn't stick to it. I have quite a bit of experience in this since I have been waxing my own vehicles over the years, but our trucks at work don't get waxed and they are harder to clean, the dirt just seems to stick to the surface. I agree though, these trucks would clean up with a buffer and look good, I've done it a couple of times. Yeah our trucks at work don't water spot, the water just lays on the truck. I can't stand it either, you touch the surface of our work trucks and it feel rough. Your right most the benifits of the wax putting a barrior on the surface of your car and protecting it is more in your head than reality, but if feels so good when they are waxed, I just want to put on a set of cotton sweats and roll around on the vehicle, but I've got problems and am a little sick.:cool2:
om21braz
Veteran Member
+1 on the clay bar. It can be quite tedious, but it really makes for a slick finish.
dave1949
Super Star Member
Ray66V:
I don't know squat about waxes, polishes, paints, etc. but you are making me feel a lot less guilty about washing my cars 2-3 times a year. :laughing:
I know it is purely psychological, but the few times I do get the cars all cleaned up inside and out, they seem to run and drive better.
Dave
I don't know squat about waxes, polishes, paints, etc. but you are making me feel a lot less guilty about washing my cars 2-3 times a year. :laughing:
I know it is purely psychological, but the few times I do get the cars all cleaned up inside and out, they seem to run and drive better.
Dave
Hondapro
Bronze Member
That is Collinite wax,I have been using it for years and have had great sucess with it.It gives a good shine and lasts for a long time.
timswi
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Ray66,
While I agree that the car will still look OK over time with the new acrylic clears. If you wash one that hasn't been maintained and look at it in bright light, it will look terrible if your picky in any way. Maintenance waxing makes the vehicle much easier to clean and dry when it's beading. Residue doesn't stick as readily.
I would rather spend 45 minutes 4 times a year waxing each vehicle than spend 3-4 hours buffing and detailing to make up for the lack of maintenance. In fact the only buffing I do anymore is on new paint jobs where I wet sand the car, or on vehicles that are not taken care of.
It's really not the same as waxing a no-wax floor.
I've been restoring and painting cars along with the occasional detail for over 20 years.
Just my 2 cents.
While I agree that the car will still look OK over time with the new acrylic clears. If you wash one that hasn't been maintained and look at it in bright light, it will look terrible if your picky in any way. Maintenance waxing makes the vehicle much easier to clean and dry when it's beading. Residue doesn't stick as readily.
I would rather spend 45 minutes 4 times a year waxing each vehicle than spend 3-4 hours buffing and detailing to make up for the lack of maintenance. In fact the only buffing I do anymore is on new paint jobs where I wet sand the car, or on vehicles that are not taken care of.
It's really not the same as waxing a no-wax floor.
I've been restoring and painting cars along with the occasional detail for over 20 years.
Just my 2 cents.
deerefan
Veteran Member
I see your point. I used to wax my vehicles twice a year, spring and fall. Since 2007, I have not done it due to advice from a well respected body and paint man with over 40 yrs experience. He says while it does make the car look great, it adds no other benefit. He also recommended Zip Wax car wash soap, as it seems to give the best finished look after a wash. I use it and agree, it looks much better than other washes I used. I have found other things to do with the time I used to spend waxing vehicles.
You and others who disagree, continue to miss my point, so I will try it again:
If you properly clean and polish your vehicle, >something your vehicle would actually benefit from<, (clay bar, consumer grade cleaners, and polishes), Basically everything your SUPPOSED to do BEFORE you wax it. And simply skip the wax, the paint will still bead water, it will still clean up easier, the dirt won't stick, and you won't notice any difference.
The reason is, because the silicones contained in the cleaning products are the same ones that are contained in 99% of the wax products. The silicones make the finish slippery, make it bead water, and, helps keep the dirt from sticking, (not sure why that is such a big deal, soapy water removes dirt either way).
The only benefit wax adds at that point is, it would seal the finish. Modern finishes are not porous, so there is nothing to seal. There is no benefit. Other than perhaps your adding more silicone. But, it is entirely unnecessary. And it is exactly the same as applying wax to a no wax floor.
Now, since most people who wax their car don't do it properly anyway. They simply spray the vehicle with a bottle of silicone, that says wax on it, or use a product that does little more. I suppose that is better than nothing, but not much better.
If you spend 3-4 hours buffing a car, it is either an extreme example, or you could benefit from more information on what to use to do it faster.
The products I use allow a qualified person to buff an average vehicle, in 30 minutes. So, even if you wanted to get ****, and take your time, you could still do it in an hour.
While writing this, I happened to receive a personal call from one of the paint manufacturers reps. He said, "They don't want to believe me when I tell them not to wax it either, and I make the stuff".
timswi
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The 3-4 hours is an entire detail, and I take my time. Yes I am ****. The people who want buff jobs from me expect that level of detail.
I first wash the entire vehicle and remove all foreign matter from the paint (stuck there due to no wax protection).
Compound the vehicle using whatever grit is called for.
Wash and dry the vehicle.
Glaze the vehicle with the buffer.
Wash and dry again.
Apply and hand remove #7 polish.
Hand wax and final detail....Ergo--3-4 hours.
While maintaining the paint isn't necessary, I've gotten well over book on all of my 150K+ GM pickups due to the level of detail that I go to.
I have also painted and buffed multiple show winning classic cars...The people who come to me expect far more than a 30 minute detail with a WalMart oribital.
Not arguing with you, just seems that our expected outcomes are far different.
I first wash the entire vehicle and remove all foreign matter from the paint (stuck there due to no wax protection).
Compound the vehicle using whatever grit is called for.
Wash and dry the vehicle.
Glaze the vehicle with the buffer.
Wash and dry again.
Apply and hand remove #7 polish.
Hand wax and final detail....Ergo--3-4 hours.
While maintaining the paint isn't necessary, I've gotten well over book on all of my 150K+ GM pickups due to the level of detail that I go to.
I have also painted and buffed multiple show winning classic cars...The people who come to me expect far more than a 30 minute detail with a WalMart oribital.
Not arguing with you, just seems that our expected outcomes are far different.