"We don't want no firehouse in our neighborhood...."

[3930dave]

You make an excellent point, one I didn't think of. One of the issues that puzzles me about the condo dwellers is that odds are, NONE of them are going to be much aware of the firehouse UNLESS they are subjected to the siren noise. Condo and apartment dwellers almost never do anything outside their abodes, they don't have yard care, landscaping, snow removal, etc. They cannot wash their cars in the driveways, don't have to maintain the property in any way, etc. I am VERY sure that an arrangement can be made between the authorities and the condo dwellers that the sirens on the equipment will not be used until the trucks are on the main street. So...what is their complaint?

I've observed that the closer you pack people together, the less they want to have anything to do with each other. I can understand, and relate to that, to a certain extent. That reality is part of why many of us choose to live rural.

Condo living, with it's physically insular/isolated lifestyle tends to reinforce that thinking. Fire doesn't respect those perceived boundaries though - modern building code, correctly implemented, will limit fire spread much more so than in old high density construction - but you are still going to get plenty of collateral damage from even a small fire in high density construction.

I know from a contractor friend who has seen the aftermath of just a major water pipe breaking in a high rise (no fire). Major $'s involved.

Came across an interesting book that talks about the issue of modern, supposedly educated people that live in high density cities, and some of the really basic things they have lost for knowledge. Or, as a good friend of mine puts it "They are so smart, they're stupid".

As with the jail example above, it doesn't take much of an additional delay, to create a much bigger hazard. Insurance companies know this, and price accordingly.

Rgds, D.

 

[ruffdog]

I have worked across the street from a fire station and the noise can be quite loud. I was a mechanic and with the doors open in warm weather, the trucks sirens would point right at us when they would leave. MUCH different than living 4 blocks from the station.

 

[/pine]

IMO the sirens and horns on firetrucks are way too loud...I have read several times where lawsuits have been filed against municipalities/ fire departments over this issue...

...in many places when FD's are called to assist in fender benders (where there is no reports of injuries)...the FD responders go way over the top blasting their horns and sirens, blocking traffic lanes and really do nothing but add to the problem...

 

[RobertBrown]

They should tell the residents that the property was slated for the development of the Okemos Juvenile Detention Center (county owned). "We felt that the fire station would be more....appropriate".....But.....if noise is an issue.......

 

[brin]

PLEASE! Put the firehouse next door to me. My fire insurance would definitely go down.

Same here...I agree...our homeowners grades insurance based on a scale of 1 to 10...10 being the most expensive and more than 5 miles from a fire station --we just make it within the 5 miles but a friend of ours just a half a mile away pays far more for homeowners than we do...just because of the distance from the fire station...

 

[JDgreen227]

Same here...I agree...our homeowners grades insurance based on a scale of 1 to 10...10 being the most expensive and more than 5 miles from a fire station --we just make it within the 5 miles but a friend of ours just a half a mile away pays far more for homeowners than we do...just because of the distance from the fire station...

Brin...I am in protection Class 6 thru AAA, distance from my local fire station is just under 3 miles. I was talking to the fire chief of the township a few years back and he told me he wished he could get more funding for staff. The station is very modern, as is the equipment, but they are mostly staffed by volunteers and that creates long response times. A few years back there was an arson fire about 2 miles down the road from me, one of my neighbors is a cop and we scrambled down to the site within 5 minutes of the report, but it was over a half hour longer before my township FD could get the first truck to the site.

 

[MogginMike]

IMO the sirens and horns on firetrucks are way too loud...I have read several times where lawsuits have been filed against municipalities/ fire departments over this issue...

And I've had more times than I can count drivers failing to yield or otherwise be oblivious to us being behind them, regardless of the number of flashy lights and sirens. Please don't try to take them away, when I use them its really when I need them...

...in many places when FD's are called to assist in fender benders (where there is no reports of injuries)...the FD responders go way over the top blasting their horns and sirens, blocking traffic lanes and really do nothing but add to the problem...

Yes, sometimes that can be true. Sometimes its due to policy makers above the people you actually see, so just keep that in mind before you blame the peons....

-mike

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Brin...I am in protection Class 6 thru AAA, distance from my local fire station is just under 3 miles. I was talking to the fire chief of the township a few years back and he told me he wished he could get more funding for staff. The station is very modern, as is the equipment, but they are mostly staffed by volunteers and that creates long response times. A few years back there was an arson fire about 2 miles down the road from me, one of my neighbors is a cop and we scrambled down to the site within 5 minutes of the report, but it was over a half hour longer before my township FD could get the first truck to the site.

When I was in college, we lived about half a block from the Dairy Queen, which was next door to the Fire Station. Not long after I got out of school, the Dairy Queen caught fire and burned to the ground. We all wondered what the story was, but we never heard. So much for living near a fire station...

 

[JDgreen227]

When I was in college, we lived about half a block from the Dairy Queen, which was next door to the Fire Station. Not long after I got out of school, the Dairy Queen caught fire and burned to the ground. We all wondered what the story was, but we never heard. So much for living near a fire station...

Maybe the firefighters of that station had a grudge against the college students who hung around the Dairy Queen....sorry, could not resist that one....

 

[brin]

Brin...I am in protection Class 6 thru AAA, distance from my local fire station is just under 3 miles. I was talking to the fire chief of the township a few years back and he told me he wished he could get more funding for staff. The station is very modern, as is the equipment, but they are mostly staffed by volunteers and that creates long response times. A few years back there was an arson fire about 2 miles down the road from me, one of my neighbors is a cop and we scrambled down to the site within 5 minutes of the report, but it was over a half hour longer before my township FD could get the first truck to the site.

JD - Same thing is true here..we have a volunteer FD but it is not staffed so if you are lucky someone shows up in 20 min. if not so lucky ...well some time after 20 min. Most houses burn down here...most are not saved...just the way it is...I think the volunteer FDs are just a feel good thing..not really functional as far as saving life or property....:2cents:

 

[Johnny g]

You make an excellent point, one I didn't think of. One of the issues that puzzles me about the condo dwellers is that odds are, NONE of them are going to be much aware of the firehouse UNLESS they are subjected to the siren noise. Condo and apartment dwellers almost never do anything outside their abodes, they don't have yard care, landscaping, snow removal, etc. They cannot wash their cars in the driveways, don't have to maintain the property in any way, etc. I am VERY sure that an arrangement can be made between the authorities and the condo dwellers that the sirens on the equipment will not be used until the trucks are on the main street. So...what is their complaint?

Sirens need to be on as soon as they are out the door. They need a clear path no matter how light the traffic might be.

 

[/pine]

And I've had more times than I can count drivers failing to yield or otherwise be oblivious to us being behind them, regardless of the number of flashy lights and sirens. Please don't try to take them away, when I use them its really when I need them...

I have never intentionally or otherwise blocked an emergency vehicle...but I am not going to remove my hands from covering my ears when a FT is blasting in close proximity...

Fire departments from all over have initiated law suits from the horn/siren/truck manufacturers because the horns/sirens cause hearing damage to firemen who have the advantage of donning hearing protection...unlike the unsuspecting motorist that just happens to be in front of a firetruck when they get a call (likely) for a fender bender or a doughnut run...

mind you the same issues are dramatically less prevalent with other types of emergency vehicles...

 

[LJH]

Yup, same here. Firehouse is not manned and when a call goes out our EMTs and firefighters respond as quickly as possible, which usually isn't very quick. They could be out moving cows, cutting hay, hunting or whatever and most locations in our county have cell service that ranges from spotty to none. Makes a person think very carefully about fire prevention/suppression, not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[eddie48]

Two comments: First is that I would call the folks in that Condo complex CAVE people for Citizens Against Virtually Everything Second is that I spent 15 years as a volunteer firefighter and EMT and I would opine that the folks I served with were some of the most active and involved citizens that you would ever hope to meet. They really cared and tried to do the right thing for their neighbors every single time they went out on a call. You are not allowed to dis them until you sign up to serve along side of them.

 

[JDgreen227]

Yup, same here. Firehouse is not manned and when a call goes out our EMTs and firefighters respond as quickly as possible, which usually isn't very quick. They could be out moving cows, cutting hay, hunting or whatever and most locations in our county have cell service that ranges from spotty to none. Makes a person think very carefully about fire prevention/suppression, not necessarily a bad thing.

OP here...agree 100% about that and because I know the local FC and several of the volunteer staff, I realize what their job entitles. And YES, it does make me more careful about prevention/suppression. About three years ago, my spouse needed help to get to the local ER and within 5 minutes of the 911 call, my local FD had a first responder here and the local chief arrived within another three minutes....AND THIS WAS AT 1 AM !!!!!

I don't think that many citizens appreciate the dedication the firefighters/EMT's exhibit toward their clients...many taxpayers say "well we are paying for these services" but do they realize the
differential between simply providing a service and caring ABOUT HOW WELL you perform it?

 

[LJH]

I don't think that many citizens appreciate the dedication the firefighters/EMT's exhibit toward their clients...many taxpayers say "well we are paying for these services" but do they realize the
differential between simply providing a service and caring ABOUT HOW WELL you perform it?

Amen. Here in our little community when a first-responder gets the call and location there's a 99% chance he knows the party personally. These guys CARE and give it 110% with minimal resources under less-than-ideal conditions. I don't think we can appreciate them enough.

 

[dave1949]

Two comments: First is that I would call the folks in that Condo complex CAVE people for Citizens Against Virtually Everything Second is that I spent 15 years as a volunteer firefighter and EMT and I would opine that the folks I served with were some of the most active and involved citizens that you would ever hope to meet. They really cared and tried to do the right thing for their neighbors every single time they went out on a call. You are not allowed to dis them until you sign up to serve along side of them.

Ditto all that.

I help with traffic control at fires and vehicle accidents. We aren't there just to block lanes LOL, or any longer than we need to be. My job is to keep further injuries to people, or damage to our equipment, from happening. If no Fire-Rescue people are on site, fifteen yahoos would be stopping to rubberneck and get the gossip. That is an unsafe situation.

The Deputies are usually on scene before we are. Once we have the scene under control and they have taken statements, they often leave on another call where they are needed more.

In some situations, we will close the road to traffic and make people detour. Usually one lane is open and we wave people through when it is clear and hold oncoming traffic until they are through. With multiple vehicles' headlights, plus flashing lights on the Squad or Tanker trucks, it isn't easy for approaching drivers to see when it is safe to pass. I keep them safe and 99% say thanks when they go by.

Eventually, the wrecker truck will come and need someone to stop traffic while they load the wrecked vehicle(s). This may be on a curve or hill with limited visibility. Some drivers don't have the brains to slow down either. They will speed into an accident scene with no idea what may happen, people working, etc.

 

[3930dave]

Sirens are designed for worst case situations, because of:

1) Sheeple behind the wheel, as already described.

2) It's been at least 3 decades since it's been relatively affordable to put an ear bleeding sound system into a car. Forget about the driver, when I can hear these systems from a block away, when I'm inside my house, anybody near that car is half deafened already by the loogan driving the noisebox.

3) Now we have Bluetooth cell audio, which some people choose to pump through high powered car stereos. I've seen a few examples of people blasting their Rx audio at high levels. One time, I was parked in a parking lot, attempting to listen to my own cell voicemail (phone held at my ear) - the guy in a BetterModelWanted next to me had his cell audio cranked. It was loud enough (Winter time, both cars had windows up), that I could barely hear my own cell phone ear speaker audio.

If all drivers had decent Situational Awareness behind the wheel, and some old fashioned UnCommon Sense and courtesy, the EMS sirens wouldn't have to be this loud.

I don't think anybody would mind the noise.... if the EMS vehicle was heading to their house or car wreck.

Let's all be safe..... a house near here just burned to the ground around this time yesterday.... it doesn't take much for Things to Go Really Wrong.......

Rgds, D.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Maybe the firefighters of that station had a grudge against the college students who hung around the Dairy Queen....sorry, could not resist that one....

That's a likely scenario...although the only time I ever went there was about 10 or 11 at night, getting a lime icy for my pregnant and sick wife. Besides, there were more interesting places to hang out than the Dairy Queen...

 

[AchingBack]

Regarding insurance reimbursement, I've heard you are better off monetarily to let the whole house burn to the ground, rather than trying to save it.