Weak Loader or what

[Tony G]

Ok guys...newbe, greenhorn, whatever you call it...thats me. Question: Case 585 with DuAll 115 loader will not lift my round bales, for that matter, will not lift the front of the tractor off the ground. Recently purchased...previous owner states he never ever had any issues with the loader said he dug dirt with it @ two months ago. I have searched all related posts and I do not have any access to a pressure guage ( at least not without traveling 2 hours to a larger city). This is what I have done so far...replaced hydraulic oil and filter (the oil was milky and low) repacked both lift cylinders, and check the spool valve(?) it was not gummed up. The rear 3pt will lift my round bales at 2000rpm but idle it won't budge. I know you guys get tired of hobby farmers like me asking stupid questions, but, humor me please. I am wondering if I am missing something obvious.

 

[texasjohn]

Milky hydraulic fluid means moisture/water in the fluid. May take more than one change of filter and fluid to get all out of the system. The 3 point on every tractor I've owned was rated for more lift than the FEL, likely yours is the same. To lift tractor off the ground, you should turn the FEL bucket edge down to the ground and then lower FEL...when edge engages ground, it should lift tractor front wheels into the air some distance. My tractor gets front wheels about a foot off the ground that way, maybe a bit more.

I had a hydraulic dump trailer with independent pump ... fluid was milky...filters clogged...would not lift hardly at all...changed filter...and fluid...several times until fluid clear...then alll was well. If this doesn't get the job done for you, further action will depend on how good with wrenches you are, etc.

:welcome: to TBN

 

[Ed of all trades]

Sounds like water was in the oil, "milky" and I have to wonder if the pump is damaged and needs rebuilt. that would be my guess. Welcome to TBN, I used to live in Hillsburo, 7 or 8 years ago.

 

[Tony G]

guess you know what dealer I use Ed of all trades . I am a a decent "wrench"... fixing the problem is my strong suit..diagnosing the problem is my weakness. just a note, although I don't have a pressure guage...I did manage to shoot a good stream of hydraulic fluid @ three foot from each fitting, and if the pump is in need of a rebuild, wouldn't my 3pt not lift my round bales

 

[oldnslo]

guess you know what dealer I use Ed of all trades . I am a a decent "wrench"... fixing the problem is my strong suit..diagnosing the problem is my weakness. just a note, although I don't have a pressure guage...I did manage to shoot a good stream of hydraulic fluid @ three foot from each fitting, and if the pump is in need of a rebuild, wouldn't my 3pt not lift my round bales

I believe you stated you needed to be above 2000 RPM for the 3 point to work. That does not sound normal either. Shooting oil three feet does not require much pressure either.

Does the loader move empty? If yes I would invest in a gauge. There are places on-line that sell them and also fitting you may need to connect them to your tractor. gauge would be an inexpensive diagnostic tool. Places like discount hydraulic hose, surplus center, etc all should have gauges and fittings. I would recomend a liquid (glycerin) filled gauge and usually at least 20% range capabilty over your operating pressure for a margin of safety.

 

[texasjohn]

I couldn't tell if the 3 pt wouldn't work at all, or if it just wouldn't pick up a bale until 2000 RPM?

 

[Tony G]

The 3pt will lift at idle just fine, but it will not lift my round bales (#1000 lbs) until I rev up the engine. I am kidding myself by trying to troubleshooting without a pressure guage huh...

 

[sweettractors]

Ok guys...newbe, greenhorn, whatever you call it...thats me. Question: Case 585 with DuAll 115 loader will not lift my round bales, for that matter, will not lift the front of the tractor off the ground. Recently purchased...previous owner states he never ever had any issues with the loader said he dug dirt with it @ two months ago. I have searched all related posts and I do not have any access to a pressure guage ( at least not without traveling 2 hours to a larger city). This is what I have done so far...replaced hydraulic oil and filter (the oil was milky and low) repacked both lift cylinders, and check the spool valve(?) it was not gummed up. The rear 3pt will lift my round bales at 2000rpm but idle it won't budge. I know you guys get tired of hobby farmers like me asking stupid questions, but, humor me please. I am wondering if I am missing something obvious.

Are you picking up your Loader valve hydraulic pressure from your rear remotes or from the main hydraulic power supply line? Ken Sweet

 

[texasjohn]

He doesn't have a pressure gauge. .... ah, i guess you mean how are the hydraulics plumbed...from rear remotes or the main supply line??

Are you picking up your Loader valve hydraulic pressure from your rear remotes or from the main hydraulic power supply line? Ken Sweet

 

[J_J]

You should be able to build something like this with parts from places like Surplus or Discount hydraulics.

Gage- Surplus Center - 3000 PSI 2.5" LF LM GAUGE
reducer fitting
hose
Female 1/4 in QD

You can add a male QD at any point in the hyd circuit you want to test.

 

[Tony G]

Loader is plumbed to the main hydraulics (I have two remotes behind the seat ). Thanks for the link JJ. Meant to answer a previous question...loader operates through It's complete range just not with any serious weight (round bale).

 

[wdchyd]

The 3pt will lift at idle just fine, but it will not lift my round bales (#1000 lbs) until I rev up the engine. I am kidding myself by trying to troubleshooting without a pressure guage huh...

yep, kidding yourself........having to rev to get enough pressure is an indication of a bad/worn pump......the milky fluid is doing it's damage internally to all components......better do your housekeeping thoroughly (clean, change oil and filter and repeat)

you need to flow test it before doing anything else......sorry

 

[J_J]

You could have a multitude or problems.

Worn pump

Worn loader spools

Debris in relief valve

Worn loader cyl seals

Contaminated fluid

Recommendations would be to flush the hyd well.

Install a hyd gage and do some testing.

Check relief valve settings.

Do or have someone do a hyd flow test.

 

[Tony G]

The reason I think the pump is still ok is because the guy a bought from said he used it to dig a hole just two months ago without issue. Anyhow, thanks for the help guys...I am going to (as recommended) flush it again and pressure test when I get a guage. Merry Christmas

 

[Tony G]

One more thing...worst case scenario...bad hyd pump. I can get a rebuilt for @$600. Can I replace it myself or is it a dealer only deal with special tools?

 

[wdchyd]

I would think a worse case senario would not be just the pump......it would rather be internally rusted control valves and barrels inside the cylinders too

That milky hyd oil does lots of damage over time, it makes rust which contaminates everything floating around

 

[Tony G]

I don't think internal rust and corrosion is the issue. When I pulled the spool valve it moved freely and was clean as a whistle. Same with the other valve just behind it also, when I bleed my hyd lines nothing but clear (milky) fliud came out

 

[J_J]

Can you hear your relief valve activating?

If you install a hyd gage in the hyd system, you will see that sometimes it takes very little pressure to do a job.

When you fully extend or retract your cyl, do you hear the relief valve squeal?

If your pump is working at specs, you will know if cyl or spools are leaking. The cyl and or hyd motors is what develops hyd pressure. Any blockage will also develop pressure.

Look at your hyd pump and see if you can unbolt it from the tractor. If so, then you can remove and replace it, saving you shop labor.

You need to know the relief valve setting.

 

[wdchyd]

guess you know what dealer I use Ed of all trades . I am a a decent "wrench"... fixing the problem is my strong suit..diagnosing the problem is my weakness............................................................................................., and if the pump is in need of a rebuild, wouldn't my 3pt not lift my round bales

Didn't you say you had to rev it up to pick it your round bales..??

If your pump WAS good, it would lift it up at idle....it would work slower but it would work....:2cents:

 

[wdchyd]

I don't think internal rust and corrosion is the issue. When I pulled the spool valve it moved freely and was clean as a whistle. Same with the other valve just behind it also, when I bleed my hyd lines nothing but clear (milky) fliud came out

Not suggesting the milky watery fluid is your immediate problem......rather I am saying the milky watery fluid eventually leads to component failure, which you have now

And you don't know how long the oil has looked like this, right?

Even after you find your immediate problem, the water (sometimes air entrainment looks milky too......from bad pump or suction hose) needs to be addressed too