Weak Loader or what
- Thread starter Tony G
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J_J
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wdchyd,
I can't remember if your video flow/pressure test was at idle.
Perhaps you can provide a link to that video so Tony G can see what is involved.
I can't remember if your video flow/pressure test was at idle.
Perhaps you can provide a link to that video so Tony G can see what is involved.
wdchyd
Elite Member
JJ,
It shows 2000 rpm. 2800 rpm and 1200 rpm (idle)
this vid shows what a perfectly good new system should look like....keep in mind that this test was done on the PB outlet just before it goes into my backhoe connection, it shows how the PRV will slowly open up as the pressure is reached....
Had this test been done just after the pump outlet, then the gpm should not diminish and stay steady
I'll have to bring in the vid camera to work next time a job comes that has a bad pump to show results
Kubota Flow/Load Meter Test - Tractor Videos - Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and More
It shows 2000 rpm. 2800 rpm and 1200 rpm (idle)
this vid shows what a perfectly good new system should look like....keep in mind that this test was done on the PB outlet just before it goes into my backhoe connection, it shows how the PRV will slowly open up as the pressure is reached....
Had this test been done just after the pump outlet, then the gpm should not diminish and stay steady
I'll have to bring in the vid camera to work next time a job comes that has a bad pump to show results
Kubota Flow/Load Meter Test - Tractor Videos - Kubota, John Deere, New Holland and More
Last edited:
wdchyd
Elite Member
If the gpm needle was jumping, that would indicate air entrainment (loose suction hose, worn shaft seal)
If the gpm doesn't change from idle to full rpm then it may indicate cavatation (collapsed suction hose or plugged suction screen)
If the gpm doesn't change from idle to full rpm then it may indicate cavatation (collapsed suction hose or plugged suction screen)
jinman
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TonyG, your 3PH could have a leaky lift cylinder and be sluggish to lift a round bale. With the round bale lifted, if you shut off the engine, does the 3PH and round bale drop to the ground pretty quick or hold steady without dropping? This test will tell if you most likely have a leaking 3PH or low pressure.
Another thing, are you sure all your remotes are centered? Depending on system flow and priority, this could be an issue. Normally, the FEL is first in line from the hydraulic pump, but you just never know how a non-OEM loader might be plumbed.
The pressure gage will tell you some info about pressure, but it won't tell you for sure if it is the pump or something passing fluid back to the reservoir. If you had water in the fluid enough to make it milky, the system relief could have opened and be partially clogged so that it is not closing. That will reduce overall system pressure, but you should be able to hear it hissing and also it will get pretty warm.
Another thing, are you sure all your remotes are centered? Depending on system flow and priority, this could be an issue. Normally, the FEL is first in line from the hydraulic pump, but you just never know how a non-OEM loader might be plumbed.
The pressure gage will tell you some info about pressure, but it won't tell you for sure if it is the pump or something passing fluid back to the reservoir. If you had water in the fluid enough to make it milky, the system relief could have opened and be partially clogged so that it is not closing. That will reduce overall system pressure, but you should be able to hear it hissing and also it will get pretty warm.
sweettractors
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okay boys ...200 psi at idle, 1200 psi at full throttle. Time for a new pump $498 with warranty.
I bet that will fix it, however, I would get all that milky fluid cleared out of the system before installing and running the new pump. Ken Sweet
wdchyd
Elite Member
x2.....
J_J
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okay boys ...200 psi at idle, 1200 psi at full throttle. Time for a new pump $498 with warranty.
Explain how you did the test, and how was the relief valve set. Was the relief cranked all the way closed?
Uh oh ...sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about (really showing my ignorance here) but I don't really know what the relief is...much less how to tighten or loosen it. Here is where I am at so far: first the fluid is now clear, red hi-trans...filter was replaced...spool valve was removed and inspected( seemed fine).. all lines were bleed until fluid was red and clear...removed the valve immediately behind spool valve (not sure what it is called but it seemed fine). I did note that I have to rev the engine (three point)to lift a bale and it will settle if I don't keep the rpms up. As far as the pressure test, I simply plugged the guage in at the disconnect that feeds the loader....started the tractor and took readings at idle 1500 and full throttle (@2500).
wdchyd
Elite Member
Tony, Do not do that test on your new pump, or you'll be buying another $500 pump or worse a trip to the ER.......You can thank your lucky stars that pump was NG.......deadheading the pressure line that feeds your FEL from the pump is court disaster and dangerous to anyone standing nearby
Next time use a t inline on that connection or test on a port that comes out of a work port from the control valve
J_J
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Tony G,
I am still not sure how you did the test.
Could you do it again like this.
Plug your gage into the work ports hose, closest to the valve lever .
Have the engine running at about 1200 rpm.
Pull the lever so part of the spool shaft comes out of the valve, momentarily, and read the pressure.
Did the pressure relief activate, and did the engine slow down?
Run the engine to 2500 rpm and do the same thing. Read the pressure.
On the 3pt, if you can raise the bale and then release the lever, the spool should block any fluid flow in neutral if things are good.
If the bale descends, then you have bad 3pt cyl seals or a worn spool in the 3pt valve.
For permanent installation of the pressure gage, install a tee at the valve IN port and use fittings to install the 3000 psi hyd gage.
Anything you do using hyd will be reflected on the gage, be it loader operation or 3pt operation. Use it to monitor your hyd system and for trouble shooting .
I am still not sure how you did the test.
Could you do it again like this.
Plug your gage into the work ports hose, closest to the valve lever .
Have the engine running at about 1200 rpm.
Pull the lever so part of the spool shaft comes out of the valve, momentarily, and read the pressure.
Did the pressure relief activate, and did the engine slow down?
Run the engine to 2500 rpm and do the same thing. Read the pressure.
On the 3pt, if you can raise the bale and then release the lever, the spool should block any fluid flow in neutral if things are good.
If the bale descends, then you have bad 3pt cyl seals or a worn spool in the 3pt valve.
For permanent installation of the pressure gage, install a tee at the valve IN port and use fittings to install the 3000 psi hyd gage.
Anything you do using hyd will be reflected on the gage, be it loader operation or 3pt operation. Use it to monitor your hyd system and for trouble shooting .
wdchyd
Elite Member
Most tractors with gear pumps are fixed displacement with no pressure relief valve......meaning: deadhead it, start it up and go boom......:thumbdown:
The pressure relief valve on most tractors are built in on the control valve to limit pressure to max settings from the manufacturer and return excess flow back to tank
There always exceptions but in general most tractors are plumbed this way so be carefull how you test
The pressure relief valve on most tractors are built in on the control valve to limit pressure to max settings from the manufacturer and return excess flow back to tank
There always exceptions but in general most tractors are plumbed this way so be carefull how you test
wdchyd
Elite Member
JJ,
Maybe I jumped the gun......I read it as he plugged into the hose that connects the loader "valve" but maybe he meant the loader "cylinders"
One word changes everything
Maybe I jumped the gun......I read it as he plugged into the hose that connects the loader "valve" but maybe he meant the loader "cylinders"
One word changes everything
JJ the only valve levers I know of are the three point hitch lever and the lever right below the three point that provides pressure to my remotes. the FEL supply line comes out from under my seat. my three point lift will drop wether that (remote?) lever is engaged or in neutral position. I am gonna take your directions over there this morning and try to do as you advise. wdchyd, I has the guage plugged into that line coming out from beneath my seat...so I think you were correc there was no place for the fluid to go or by-pass (dead heading?). Can I just hook up the guage to one of the remotes and test there?
J_J
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Yes. you can plug into a remote outlet, and do the same test I suggested.
If there is any debris under the first valve in the series flow, that valve relief will never seat and therefore pass fluid on to tank, and never get a good test.
If there is any debris under the first valve in the series flow, that valve relief will never seat and therefore pass fluid on to tank, and never get a good test.
there is 1 other thing I totally forgot to mention ...when I first brought the tractor home not only was the oil milky ,but it was also about 3 or 4 gallons low on hydraulic fluid . there's a very good chance air could have been trapped in that hydraulic pump . I just was not suspecting the pump because the previous owner was so adamant about the loader working properly
