Weight in your tires

[dklistul]

I know many of you run weight in your tires and I'm considering doing it myself. I need to get some added stability into my 770 because some of my mowing is on some ground with some slope.

The book says to fill the tires with Calcium Chloride to a level so that the tops of the rims are always covered, to prevent corrosion. Stopped at the dealer today and he suggested only filling halfway (up to about the level of the axle). The salesman didn't instill a lot of confidence in me, as he seemed to be guessing on most answers.

Calcium Chloride worries me; I've seen what that crap can do to wheel rims.

I'm also looking to put a ballast box on the back of the tractor to balance my FEL.

Anyway, on to my questions.

1) What do you guys use in your tires? Calcium Chloride? Foam? Anti-freeze of some sort?

2) Does it take special equipment to put the fluid in or is there a way to do it at home? (I live a long way from the dealer and would rather not have to trailer the thing if I don't need to).

3) Do those of you with weighted tires also use a ballast box with your FEL?

I'm just trying to put a plan together here.

Thanks

 

[mjonesnh]

Using Methanol and water mixture in my New Holland R4's. Pre-mixed windshield washer fluid seems to be popular with TBN members. Tractor Supply carries an adapter that can be used with a garden hose to fill tires with the windshield washer fluid. You can order adapter from Gempler's if you cannot locate one from TSC.

 

[dex3361]

Save yourself a lot of grief and use something other than calcium chloride.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Using Methanol and water mixture in my New Holland R4's. Pre-mixed windshield washer fluid seems to be popular with TBN members. Tractor Supply carries an adapter that can be used with a garden hose to fill tires with the windshield washer fluid. You can order adapter from Gempler's if you cannot locate one from TSC.

I know many of you run weight in your tires and I'm considering doing it myself. I need to get some added stability into my 770 because some of my mowing is on some ground with some slope.

The book says to fill the tires with Calcium Chloride to a level so that the tops of the rims are always covered, to prevent corrosion. Stopped at the dealer today and he suggested only filling halfway (up to about the level of the axle). The salesman didn't instill a lot of confidence in me, as he seemed to be guessing on most answers.

Calcium Chloride worries me; I've seen what that crap can do to wheel rims.

I'm also looking to put a ballast box on the back of the tractor to balance my FEL.

Anyway, on to my questions.

1) What do you guys use in your tires? Calcium Chloride? Foam? Anti-freeze of some sort?

2) Does it take special equipment to put the fluid in or is there a way to do it at home? (I live a long way from the dealer and would rather not have to trailer the thing if I don't need to).

3) Do those of you with weighted tires also use a ballast box with your FEL?

I'm just trying to put a plan together here.

Thanks

CaCl is the cheapest way to get the most weight in your tires. It is 1.4 times as heavy as water. Rimguard/beet juice is almost as heavy at much higher price. I would not use either without a tube because of corrosion with calcium and reported bead slippage with rimguard. All of the alcohol mixtures are lighter than water and not attractive for that and $ reasons. Water is free. It is the season. Get a fill fitting and try it out. It will give you a good stepping point to your final move toward a non freezing solution with the amt of weight you need.
larry

 

[dklistul]

Thanks.

Yeah, that CaCl worries me.

I found the air/water fill adapter and ordered it. (No TSC here; the closest ones are in OK and NE; hard to justify driving that far for a $10 tool, so I just ordered it from the manufacturer).

Maybe I'll just try straight water this summer and consider refilling with something else down the road.

 

[kennyd]

Rimgaurd, WW Fluid, and water/antifreeze mix are the most popular. You can get environmentally/pet safe anti freeze at WalMart, it's used by a lot of RV'ers.

 

[RoyJackson]

I had windshield washer fluid in my 790's tires. It's been 6 years now, so I cannot recall exactly how much per tire (15-19.5 Industrials), but I think it was 20-22 gallons each tire. These were filled before I bought the tractor. My experience in filling is on an older 670 (770's little bro). I think it was 10-12 gallons, but that's been 10-12 years ago. My tires originally had CaCl in them...but I didn't like that idea so when I replaced a tire, I filled both with windshield washer fluid.
As with my old 670, when the manual for your 770 was written (late 80's, early 90's; CaCl was the only game in town...and does provide the most weight for the lowest cost...important for a farmer, less important for we CUT owners).

It's not hard to fill them....takes a few hours (but I'm pretty slow moving anymore).
Buy the fluid in bulk, if you can. Although I used windshield washer fluid in gallon containers, I got them for about 90 cents per gallon. I'm sure you can do better. Since the windshield washer fluid was so cheap, we bought a lot more then I used on my 670. It's all gone now, but took several years to use up.

You'll need an air/liquid adapter, valve stem removal tool (both available at NAPA, McMaster-Carr and other places), a drill powered pump (get a cheap one), a drill obviously (NOT a battery powered one...it's going to be running quite a while...make sure you can lock the trigger on too), a floor jack and jack stands. An old hose and a 5 gallon bucket too, btw.
Another tool is an air/liquid tire gage (spring loaded so it pushes the liquid back out). All told, about $25 for tools, if you already have the drill, jack and jackstands. Might even be cheaper if you look around more then I did.

Jack the tractor up (drawbar bracket is a good place) and put the jackstands under the axle. The bottom of the tires should be about a half-inch or so off the floor. Once jacked, the tranny should be in neutral and parking brake off.

Using the valve stem removal tool (wear goggles), deflate the tire(s) and unscrew the valve stem (btw, when you're at NAPA, pick up a half dozen or so valve stems...you're sure to lose one). Remember, the stem is inside the valve core. It's easier to remove the stems when the tire is rotated so the core is at 12:00 O'Clock (is that AM or PM, Roy? Doesn't matter).

Thread the air/liquid adapter on the core and the drill powered pump to the air/liquid adapter (I used length of old hose between with some fittings), then a hose from the pump to your 5 gallon bucket. It's easier to get prime if your bucket is level with or above the valve core. You can also fill the pump to bucket hose to prime.
Then you just pump and bleed out air (there's a bleed off valve on the air/liquid adapter). Rotate your valve core to the level of liquid you want in your tires. Don't fill the tire completely with liquid. IIRC, I rotated to the 10 O'Clock position for a 75% fill. You'll know you're there when that bleed valve is all liquid rather then air.
Once filled, replace the valve stem and air up your tire to no more then what's embossed on the sidewall.
Then repeat this process on the other side.

It's pretty simple (after all, I could do it...which attests to it's simplicity), just time consuming (mostly due to the small volume the pump can handle).

Once you're done, remove the jackstands, dejack the 770 and go for a cold beer...you've earned it.

When you mow with your 770, do you remove the loader? It does make it more stable on slopes. Filling the tires will help immensely, but so will removing all that loader weight (which is mostly above the axles). Since you asked about using the ballast box when mowing, I assume you have a mid-mount mower. Since my mower is rear mount (3PH), obviously I couldn't use the ballast box. It might help, but keep it very very low (a few inches off the ground, at most).

 

[dklistul]

Thanks, Roy, for the instructions. I was wondering how the air comes out when the fluid goes in, and even how to get the fluid in when the bluejuice comes in unpressurized containers. A small pump it shall be.

Yeah, I have the 60" MMM and typically mow without the FEL or any rear attachments. Working without anything front and rear makes it much easier to maneuver in tight spots, which is why I use the MMM rather than a 3-point mower. (As a sidebar, this little 770 maneuvers almost as tightly as my 25-year old Monkey Wards riding mower.) I only need the ballast box for when I'm doing FEL work.

I have lots of tools and drill motors (airline mechanic by training but since I teach rather than twist wrenches now, the tools are all in my garage). I've ordered the adapter (from Slime, of all companies) and it should be here this week sometime. I might stop at the local NAPA to see if they have one; if I have a second one, maybe I can work both tires at once.

I have the 12.4-16 Ag tires on mine. The book says a CaCl fill to the top of the rim would weigh 214 pounds. If CaCl is 1.4 times the weight of water, that means straight water to the tops of the rims would weigh 153 pounds, or 18 to 19 gallons. So that's about how much bluejuice I'd put in each tire. Don't know the weight of bluejuice but it'll probably be 140 pounds or so per side.

Seems like I read here that some folks only fill to a point level with the axle to help keep the CG lower. Any thoughts?

Do you guys run fluid in your front tires, too? (Mine is a MFWD.) Looks like that would be about 4 gallons per tire. Not sure that's enough weight to make much difference. What do you guys say?

 

[RoyJackson]

Thanks, Roy, for the instructions.

I have the 12.4-16 Ag tires on mine. The book says a CaCl fill to the top of the rim would weigh 214 pounds. If CaCl is 1.4 times the weight of water, that means straight water to the tops of the rims would weigh 153 pounds, or 18 to 19 gallons. So that's about how much bluejuice I'd put in each tire. Don't know the weight of bluejuice but it'll probably be 140 pounds or so per side.

Seems like I read here that some folks only fill to a point level with the axle to help keep the CG lower. Any thoughts?

Do you guys run fluid in your front tires, too? (Mine is a MFWD.) Looks like that would be about 4 gallons per tire. Not sure that's enough weight to make much difference. What do you guys say?

You're welcome...nicest thing about TBN is how we all trade ideas and thoughts...sometimes even more then that!

You're in Colorado...I wouldn't put straight water in those tires unless you keep the tractor inside a heated building. You sure don't want them to freeze!
My tires are at the 75% mark, but I may not be working on the slopes you are. It's hilly here in south central PA, but probably not as hilly as you are in CO. The biggest advantage of the ballast in the tires is it reduces the chance that you can "bounce" into a side rollover (by adding inertia...). Halffull tires would do the most to lower your center of gravity, but more weight would increase inertia (resistance to movement, in this case).
So, go halfway...you can always add more later.

As far as the fronts...no, I wouldn't.

 

[msmud]

Why is it that none of the major tractor tire manufacturers seem to recommend filling tires with fluid, but instead call for careful balancing of axle weight using a scale if possible and then adding iron weights as necessary? I am referring to the Goodyear, Firestone and Michelin Ag handbooks.
At least two of these references cite uneven tire pressures with fluid-filling, and unnecessary stiffening of the tire carcass.

Tim

 

[RoyJackson]

Why is it that none of the major tractor tire manufacturers seem to recommend filling tires with fluid, but instead call for careful balancing of axle weight using a scale if possible and then adding iron weights as necessary? I am referring to the Goodyear, Firestone and Michelin Ag handbooks.
At least two of these references cite uneven tire pressures with fluid-filling, and unnecessary stiffening of the tire carcass.

Tim

I haven't read those tire manuals, but I'll go by your post. My guess is the tire manufacturer's expertise and priorities deal with the longevity of their product. Since they are the experts, they're probably right. I'm sure their lawyers had something to do with that too, for liability reasons.

However, I'd guess farmers have been filling their rear tires since the 1920's or 1930's (whenever ag tires became widely available) with few problems (other then the occasional rusting of the rims by the CaCl).

I, for one, have no interest in jockeying around heavy wheel weights, although there are TBNers who swear by them. Also, you can't get ballast much lower then the bottom of a tire.

 

[Rob-D]

I don't know Roy, I'm going back and forth on rear weights or loading fluid. I loaded my ZTR tires (Rimguard) because they are small, 10 gallons each and it helped because I'm light.

First off, no way will I put CaCl in my tires, I've seen what that can do! It gets cold here and I won't risk plain water. The other thing is with blow outs, ok the small tires get a flat and I have 10 gallons of beet juice on the lawn that won't do any damage but we have nasty thorn bushes here and they go through everything. I got flats in my front tires on the 2720 and thought I'd get a rear flat one day but luckily didn't.

What's the price of weights? I figure if I get a flat I can just raise the tire and do a repair without removing it using weights. Just seems like a better option to me. No rust, flat problems or freezing to worry about besides that Rimguard wasn't that cheap! Also sell your tractor and you may be able to use your weights on the new guy!

Rob

 

[radman1]

I have used CaCl in tubes on tires for many years in the past. In tubes, it may take longer than the life of the tractor to corrode a rim. However, you will occassionally get a little rust around the stem. It is not the most evil thing to put in, if you need serious weight at the lowest cost. It can be mixed at different strengths for more weight. Having said that, I now prefer cast weights over liquid ballast, but cast will cost the most.

 

[msmud]

It takes years for CaCl to eat through rims, I mean decades. Neither my dad's Ford 2000 at 20 years, nor my his 970 at 16 years showed a problem. Still is seems a bit unsettling to have a corrosive working slowly on your tractor.

I have just priced weights on a 3032E, and 100# per side costs nearly $600, 155# per side is about $900. That's pretty expensive, particularly considering that the front weight ballasting is $1100 with brackets etc, but if I get this tractor, it will be the route I go.
Tim

 

[Rob-D]

It takes years for CaCl to eat through rims, I mean decades. Neither my dad's Ford 2000 at 20 years, nor my his 970 at 16 years showed a problem. Still is seems a bit unsettling to have a corrosive working slowly on your tractor.

I have just priced weights on a 3032E, and 100# per side costs nearly $600, 155# per side is about $900. That's pretty expensive, particularly considering that the front weight ballasting is $1100 with brackets etc, but if I get this tractor, it will be the route I go.
Tim

Me too!

Rob

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have used CaCl in tubes on tires for many years in the past. In tubes, it may take longer than the life of the tractor to corrode a rim. However, you will occassionally get a little rust around the stem. It is not the most evil thing to put in, if you need serious weight at the lowest cost. It can be mixed at different strength Having said that, I now prefer cast weights over liquid ballast, but cast will cost the most.

It takes years for CaCl to eat through rims, I mean decades. Neither my dad's Ford 2000 at 20 years, nor my his 970 at 16 years showed a problem. Still is seems a bit unsettling to have a corrosive working slowly on your tractor.

I have just priced weights on a 3032E, and 100# per side costs nearly $600, 155# per side is about $900. That's pretty expensive, particularly considering that the front weight ballasting is $1100 with brackets etc, but if I get this tractor, it will be the route I go.
Tim

CaCl in '62 JD 2010 from the beginning. Rims are OK.
larry

 

[SPYDERLK]

I have done tests with CaCl added to distilled water. 5# added to a gallon makes a solution that weighs 10.6# per gallon. 6#/G yields an 11#/G solution

7#/G gives 11.4/G but some of the salt precipitates out at 0F. Bottom of tire will be a little slushy with salt until it warms back up.
larry

 

[sunnyside360]

I have used CaCl in tubes on tires for many years in the past. In tubes, it may take longer than the life of the tractor to corrode a rim. However, you will occassionally get a little rust around the stem. It is not the most evil thing to put in, if you need serious weight at the lowest cost. It can be mixed at different strength Having said that, I now prefer cast weights over liquid ballast, but cast will cost the most.

My take on ballasting tractor tires is exactly as radman1 has stated. Most of my tire ballasting over the years has been with CaCl but in the last ten years it's been with RTV antifreeze and RimGuard. The only tractor I've had bad rim rusting issues with CaCl was a 1949 Farmall. I've had some small amount of rust around the valve stems on others but nothing serious. I'm sold on RimGuard -- no tubes, no rust, enviro friendly, can fix a flat with a plug w/o removing wheel. Down side is RimGuard is not cheap -- think it was around $2.50 per gallon installed on my new 2010 4320 (maybe got a bargain because of new tractor).

 

[Rob-D]

I'm sold on RimGuard -- no tubes, no rust, enviro friendly, can fix a flat with a plug w/o removing wheel.

I was wondering about this and if Rimguard would cause problems with the adhesive adhering to the rubber when attempting to fix flats.

Thanks,
Rob

 

[beenthere]

.................
1) What do you guys use in your tires?
Windshield Washer fluid, to -20 degree F straight

2) Does it take special equipment to put the fluid in or is there a way to do it at home?
I just lay the tire down, break the bead, and pour the WW fluid in. Block up the tire enough that the rim hangs and the top bead comes together and fill with air

3) Do those of you with weighted tires also use a ballast box with your FEL?
I do also use the ballast box for FEL work

..........................

This works for me.