Welding on hooks vs FEL warranty

[frank_f15]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only problem I can think of would be somehow unbalancing or warping the alignment of the FEL by lifting something seriously overweight to one side or the other.
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i think that is why 3 hooks are best u can distibute the pull/weight across the total width of the bucket and not over stress one side.

 

[AndyMA]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Bucket hooks are really useful sometimes. I have no regrets...but I bet worst case a warranty repair could be denied as the result of having them... )</font>

As a product design engineer I have spent quite a bit of time in front of lawyers as well as responding to warranty claims. A manufacturer can not deny a claim based on a modification to a product unless the manufacturer can prove that the modification resulted in that specific failure. A manufacturer can not also require you to use their maintenance or repair parts to keep the warranty in effect unless they can show that the parts you've used resulted in the specific failure. The is also applies to attachments and accessories. The Federal regulation that covers this is called the Magnuson-Moss act and it only applies to consumer purchases. A manufacturer would have a very hard time showing that welding bucket hooks on a bucket would void much of the warranty unless something like the bucket tore right at the weld.
I have attached a Word document (long) which describes the act in more detail.

Andy

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Hey, Pepper, this is actually pretty funny in your manual...

It says DO NO TOUCH THE STINKIN" ROPS!! (sorta)

But the rest of the machine is pretty much fair game. and here is what I like:

"When (not IF...) you weld, be sure to remove the paint....

You are REQUIRED to weld SOMETHING on you machine, or you might be NEGLIGENT.

 

[warrelllj1]

Tractors4u, I have a 430 loader with the heavy duty 72" bucket. The dealer told me that most everybody puts hooks on their loaders but I can't do it for you. Right away I bought three 3/8" weld on hooks and three 4"x4"X 1/4" thick plates and welded them on the bucket. Very useful. My friend with a 790 JD had me put a set on his bucket also. Money well spent!

 

[PineRidge]

<font color="blue"> Tractors4u, I have a 430 loader with the heavy duty 72" bucket. The dealer told me that most everybody puts hooks on their loaders but I can't do it for you. Right away I bought three 3/8" weld on hooks and three 4"x4"X 1/4" thick plates and welded them on the bucket. Very useful. My friend with a 790 JD had me put a set on his bucket also. Money well spent!
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Warrelllj1 I am surprised that your dealer didn't want in on the extra labor to install the hooks. All of the dealers that I talked to during my quotes were more than happy to accommodate my needs. I am wondering if you might have asked your dealer about the bucket hooks after you already had the tractor delivered?

 

[jwstewar]

I had my dealer weld 3 hooks on mine (as I don't weld - yet, maybe one of these days). I actually asked him about it about a month after delivery when I had it in for him to readjust the mmm & loader. When I asked him about the hooks he said sure, "Whatever the customer wants." I think he charged me $50 for all three, more than I would've paid had I done it myself, but probably cheaper than had I taken it to a welding shop. Dang those things have been useful. I tied the boom pole off to all three of them when I lifted the trusses up to the garage.

 

[Tractors4u]

I think most of ya'll misinterpreted my post as concern versus curiosity. When Henro posted about drilling ROPS people came out of the woodwork with all sorts of reasons not to and among those reasons was warranty and it being a user modification. I have no problem with welding hooks and I will weld hooks sometime when I get a chance. I honestly don't think a couple of small holes in the ROPS will hinder it's effectiveness but some do. Some felt that if there was a problem that the manufacturer would hold the owner at fault because of the mods. My point is why wouldn't the manufacturer hold you at fault for this? Pretty good discussion so far.

 

[MadDog]

I'm having 3 hooks welded on the FL402 that is coming with my B7800. My dealer wasn't even slightly reluctant and is putting them on at no extra charge.

I can't really believe that putting hooks on the FEL would, in and of itself, have any effect on either the tractor or FEL warranty at all. Obviously, if damage occurs because of abuse to the tractor or attachment, that is another matter, but as I read the Kubota warranty, damage caused by abuse wouldn't be covered whether there has been an after-market modification or not.

 

[Currmudgeon]

It depends on what goes wrong.

If you chain up your bucket, try to lift that block of concrete and bend the back of your bucket, or bend the lifting arms, you're on your own.

If the welds that hold the cutting edge on fail, they will probably look at it, tell you the penetration was lousy, and fix it, regardless of whatever else you did to the bucket.

If you levitate the back wheels, pitch yourself over the hood, and break something, that's operator headspace and not warrantable.

FELs are kinda hard to break unless you abuse hell out of them. That usually becomes obvious.

 

[bigpete]

Hey, Brent.
Modifying the ROPS and modifying a FEL bucket are two completely different animals.

1) The bucket is a user option and its purpose is to increase work productivity.

2) The ROPS is a safety device mandated by OSHA for certain applications and certified by OSHA, ANSI, and ASAE (I think....). The OSHA mandate makes it illegal (even to the point of criminal negligence) to use a tractor without a ROPS or with a modified ROPS in some applications. For example, mining and construction.

3) If a ROPS is modified and used in a consumer application, there would be a warranty issue if the ROPS was damaged during normal use, or even a rollover. The warranty would apply only to replacement of the ROPS. No laws violated here. However, as we have discussed ad nauseum in the other thread, the tractor manufacturer is not going to be able to live uip to their saftey obligation and anybody hurt cannot blame the tractor maker.

4) If a bucket were modified and failed, the manufacturer would probably avoid repairing or replacing the bucket--just like the ROPS. In addition, if there were some other damage to the tractor as a result of the bucket modification, the manufacturer might also avoid repairing or replacing a part. No laws violated here, either, even in the example of mining or construction I pointed out above.

The big difference between the consequences of modifying one or the other is less of a a "Warranty" issue and more of a "Product Liability," "Negligence," or "Code Violation" issue. Depending, of course, on whether it was a commercial or private application.

A good analogy might be comparing the the warranty of a hardhat and a wrench. Modify either one and the company might not replace it if it breaks. Modify the hardhat, and the manufacturer cannot promise your safety any more. If you modify a hardhat and put it on one of your employees, look out /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif