welding question

[2manyrocks]

There are many variables that go into making a good weld. The machine is part of it, but the skill of the operator is a bigger part. If you gave me the best Indy 500 car ever made, I couldn't win with it because I don't have the necessary skill or experience to drive it. If you can learn from an experienced welder, it will help you tremendously in picking the right equipment, the right electrodes and in the welding process itself.

 

[jklingel]

I'm a back-yard, used-to-weld-professionally for a few yrs, but am not super experienced. I agree about the large DC machine for heavy plate, though. Stick welding is pretty versatile. You may want to check another forum, too, like the Garage Journal, in the fabrication section. There are more pros there, but I don't think you'll hear much different than these guys have said. There is one "gent" who tends to blow off a lot of air there and is flat rude if you disagree, but other than him, I find it a pretty good place to ask. (The guy does know his stuff, though.) j

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Welding is a lot of "hands on". I can tell you how to ride a bull, and you may think you have it all understood, but until you get on one of them, you won't fully understand. I am a steel fitter, and I think you can learn all you want to learn, if, you want to learn. When you heat steel until it is good and red, it will be soft even after it cools. Usually when building drilling rigs, the pre heat on 4" plate was usually 350 deg. or so. Pre heating also spreads out the heat, whereas when welding, the electrical short caused by the electrode super heats a small area. On something thick, going slow and keeping it from getting too hot will minimize distortion. If you weld it fast and stay after it, welding bead after bead and get all that steel very hot, it will move, or draw, as it cools, and on thick steel, that is a bad thing, because it is hard to get it back in the right position. I had to mark all the welds, I even numbered the order of how I wanted it welded, and my welders knew what I wanted, and it always worked out really well. I love fitting plate steel, it is my passion.

 

[dieselcrawler]

I've had a stick welder for years... the ol' man was showin' me what to do when I was ten years old... never had any formal training, just workin' with this and that, fixin' farm stuff, and built a few deer-bashin' bumpers for my trucks over the years... nothin' broke that I thought would hold, and everything I thought would break, did.

Buddy of mine let me keeps his MIG w/gas at my garage... now geesh that critter is nice... been makein' exhaust systems for my ol' trucks... super nice for thin metal... gonna do some cab corners on another project truck soon...

Each type of welder has it's place... it's nice to be lucky enough to have both at my disposal... the areas they work well in overlap, and which one I'd want first is a toss up... I'd rather learn on a stick... I think it makes you a better welder...

Operator skill becomes the bottom line...

Greg

 

[CRAFTBENDER]

I believe there is more room for error with a mig. I have seen welded pieces that fell apart that had a nice bead. I mostly tig weld. There is no doubt with tig because you can see the puddle. An experienced welder can get a great weld with mig. It's all about preparation, proceedure, and knowing what you are seeing. By the way, when I stick weld, I use my foot pedal and high frequency start so I can vary my heat and control.

 

[jmcalli]

Yes, manufacturers rate their MIG machines at single pass weld capability. I have a Millermatic rated for up to 1/2" steel, and I have welded 1/2" steel in a single pass. At that output the duty cycle is about 30%, but it's not a problem. I don't think I've ever needed to weld for three minutes straight but even if did exceed the duty cycle, the machine would shut down before it overheated.

 

[bobodu]

What bothers me about MIGs is that Joe Schmoe goes to Harbor Freight and buys a $200 MIG and expects to be able to build a safe FEL with it.Or a 10,000lb. trailer or a motorcycle.My own personal belief is if ya gotta ask,you better go stick.

 

[Sully2]

What bothers me about MIGs is that Joe Schmoe goes to Harbor Freight and buys a $200 MIG and expects to be able to build a safe FEL with it.Or a 10,000lb. trailer or a motorcycle.My own personal belief is if ya gotta ask,you better go stick.

And inexperinced welders wont do that with an El Cheapo stick machine? C'mon dude!!

 

[Sully2]

I'm going to ask this just for general knowledge of welding. Using mig welders in particular. If I'm looking at Mig adds, I notice they sometime mention being able to weld a certain thickness of steel, 1/4", 1/2" etc. Is the what it's capable of welding in a single pass? And will multiple passes be as strong as a single pass.
Just wanting a little info about welding thats all.
If you were going to weld 1" and 3/4" steel together, would mig give the same results (strength wise) as a stick welder.

Wedge

If you go various places on the internet ( Like to Hobarts webpages) you can download the PDF files that are the users manuals for their machines.

The answer to your question about can it weld what it says it can ( thickness-wise) is a yes and a no. A Hobart HH140 CAN weld 1/4" steel..but NOT in a single pass..it takes more than one pass to do it ( per their own manual) Multiple passes on a weld had better be as strong as a single pass..or there are many things that are going to fall apart!!

As far as a 1" thick piece welding to a 3/4" thick item....In either case the joint will have to be prep ground..and most probably pre-heated...but with the PROPER SIZED wire fed welder ( and of course a guy that knows what he is doing...) it can "easily" be done.

Never forget that a high quality "stick machine" costs about the same as an entry level MIG welder!! And if your intent is working on tractors; trailers; farm machines in general...you'll probably be a lot better off with something like a Hobart ( as an exanmple) Stickmate thats AC and DC also.

Being proficient at welding..and choosing the right rod for the job..a Stickmate such as that AC/DC model will weld anything you'll ever come across

 

[bobodu]

And inexperinced welders wont do that with an El Cheapo stick machine? C'mon dude!!

"DUDE"....the very nature of stick is such that even though the weld may be on the ugly side,it's far more likely than an inexperienced welder can make a stronger weld.You ever wonder why stick is the first thing they teach? I am able to use either process,but my MIG sits there most of the time because I want things to hold.
As far as cost goes,my Lincoln AC225 cost me $85 and my Lincarc welder/generator was given to me.