Well and water
- Thread starter OkeeDon
- Start date
- Views: 4269
SPIKER
Elite Member
DON: the best pump for mixing the water is a cheap sump pump, most of them will run for years with out any problems. we have one that did service in the house sump for about 10 years, and when the switch failed in the float it was tossed out in the barn and replaced with a new one. now the boss had me wire it up with a good lenght of new submersable wire, and sub surface sealing tape. we used a lenght of 1.5" PVC pipe and threaded it in, bolted the pump down to a 24" square plate and sank it in the pond about 10~14' deep. then cut the PVC pipe to about 36" up and glued on a cap, the cap I drilled with small 1/8" drill bit in a nice little pattern, and used a larger hole in the center. it has been running for about 3 years off and on, boss just plugs it in when he feels like it. It pulls the cold water up and warms the pond pretty fast, but it is aLARGE pnd and does not need to be re-filled as we get enough rain and have plenty of runnoff. We have had some problems though, the cord was torn off about 3 times now by mowers and one high wind which took shead roof and all, the power cord was fed through the lean-to and when the roof went off it it too cord along for a ride.! the cord ended up about 100 feet away and 45 feet up in top of the big maple tree!!! watched it happen was a strong wind shear. it actually was spraying pond water up when it hit.! the roof was smashed into the bosses new house deck addition! he was almost hit by it the roof section was about 25' x 14' and still had the lower 1/2wall attached for a bit and that aws 6' high x 25'!
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
B7510
Bronze Member
Thanks for an interesting reference. Kind of what I expected. In some cases, wind maps of the Southeast have not even been attempted. In the cases where a survey has been done, Florida is rated as a poor candidate for wind energy. Too flat. A wind energy potential map for Florida shows that the area around my property is rated as category 1; category 2 is only achievable at some locations along the coast, and category 3, which is the lowest rating considered viable, is not achieved in the SE until getting into the mountainous area in the most northwesterly corner of the SE region.
I still need to try to get some local info on whether there's enough weather (pun intended) to get decent results from a small, homeowner-type windmill. I'm sure I can get enough out of one to power an airstone for pond aeration, at least some of the time, but I'm not at all confident it would be worth it, economically. I still like the looks and idea of a windmill, but it may turn out to be a novelty or "feature" rather than a viable economical choice.
I still need to try to get some local info on whether there's enough weather (pun intended) to get decent results from a small, homeowner-type windmill. I'm sure I can get enough out of one to power an airstone for pond aeration, at least some of the time, but I'm not at all confident it would be worth it, economically. I still like the looks and idea of a windmill, but it may turn out to be a novelty or "feature" rather than a viable economical choice.
SPIKER
Elite Member
OKdon:
an OLD friend has one of the windmill air stone generators that are available commercially, (no links as I never investegated them) but his keeps ice off all winter and we are in a cat1 wind region. they only require like 2 mPH to pump air for 10' depth. they put out a lot of bubbles when the wind is about 10 mph and have over speed protection too. besides if you have that much wind the air stone will not be needed /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
an OLD friend has one of the windmill air stone generators that are available commercially, (no links as I never investegated them) but his keeps ice off all winter and we are in a cat1 wind region. they only require like 2 mPH to pump air for 10' depth. they put out a lot of bubbles when the wind is about 10 mph and have over speed protection too. besides if you have that much wind the air stone will not be needed /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Mark M /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
<font color="blue"> besides if you have that much wind the air stone will not be needed </font>
Now, that's an interesting comment I hadn't heard before, and shows my ignorance about ponds. From everything I've read, oxygen levels get stratified in ponds, and something mechanical is needed to circulate the water. We do plan a fountain, primarily because my wife thinks it's pretty (and I secretly agree with her), and I planned to be sure that it picked up water deep enough to also aerate the pond. But, my pond is probably 14' deep in the middle, and the deepest fountain pickup I've seen is around 7' or so (with the possible exception of the sump pump fountain described above, which I may try), so I've automatically been assuming I may also need an air stone to adequately aerate the pond all the way to the bottom.
Now, you make the entirely reasonable assertion that ponds may aerate themselves with enough wind. Food for thought. I'd like to know more.
Here's what it will come down to. I'm 64 years old and don't fish. I'm at the point in my life where I do things because I want to, not because I have to, subject to my budget and physical limitations. And, that's where rationalizations come in.
The pond is rationalized because it was a much cheaper alternative to hauling in necessary fill; it's also there because it's pretty. It has a feed from the well and a float valve to keep the water level the same all the time, rationalized by mosquito control, but mostly because I like it that way. It will have a portion of the bank in grass, for access and a clear view, and a portion of the banks in natural landscaping, rationalized by something or other (the wife takes care of the environmental side) and attractive. It will have a fountain, rationalized by aeration, but primarily because it's pretty. Ideally, it will also have a windmill, rationalized by additional aeration, but also because I like the looks. If I have one, it will be moderately serious, 16' to 20' tower, rationalized because it works better, but really because it looks better. I think you get the drift.
Now despite my rationalization, none of these things are necessary, so budget starts to rear it's ugly head. The pond was a no-brainer because it was cheaper than the alternative. But, I estimate it will cost about $30 per month on average to maintain the water level, plus wear and tear on the well pump. The fountain is going to be between $1K and $2K, plus installation, and will cost around $30 per month to operate, plus maintenance and replacement costs. And, while windmills are cheap to operate, they're fairly pricey to buy. I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see how the budget shakes out before I promise myself I'll have a windmill...but, they sure are attractive...I may need a really good rationalization. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Now, that's an interesting comment I hadn't heard before, and shows my ignorance about ponds. From everything I've read, oxygen levels get stratified in ponds, and something mechanical is needed to circulate the water. We do plan a fountain, primarily because my wife thinks it's pretty (and I secretly agree with her), and I planned to be sure that it picked up water deep enough to also aerate the pond. But, my pond is probably 14' deep in the middle, and the deepest fountain pickup I've seen is around 7' or so (with the possible exception of the sump pump fountain described above, which I may try), so I've automatically been assuming I may also need an air stone to adequately aerate the pond all the way to the bottom.
Now, you make the entirely reasonable assertion that ponds may aerate themselves with enough wind. Food for thought. I'd like to know more.
Here's what it will come down to. I'm 64 years old and don't fish. I'm at the point in my life where I do things because I want to, not because I have to, subject to my budget and physical limitations. And, that's where rationalizations come in.
The pond is rationalized because it was a much cheaper alternative to hauling in necessary fill; it's also there because it's pretty. It has a feed from the well and a float valve to keep the water level the same all the time, rationalized by mosquito control, but mostly because I like it that way. It will have a portion of the bank in grass, for access and a clear view, and a portion of the banks in natural landscaping, rationalized by something or other (the wife takes care of the environmental side) and attractive. It will have a fountain, rationalized by aeration, but primarily because it's pretty. Ideally, it will also have a windmill, rationalized by additional aeration, but also because I like the looks. If I have one, it will be moderately serious, 16' to 20' tower, rationalized because it works better, but really because it looks better. I think you get the drift.
Now despite my rationalization, none of these things are necessary, so budget starts to rear it's ugly head. The pond was a no-brainer because it was cheaper than the alternative. But, I estimate it will cost about $30 per month on average to maintain the water level, plus wear and tear on the well pump. The fountain is going to be between $1K and $2K, plus installation, and will cost around $30 per month to operate, plus maintenance and replacement costs. And, while windmills are cheap to operate, they're fairly pricey to buy. I guess I'm just going to have to wait and see how the budget shakes out before I promise myself I'll have a windmill...but, they sure are attractive...I may need a really good rationalization. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
WCarlson
Silver Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2003
- Messages
- 214
- Tractor
- John Deere 4200
Don,
I use a dedicated low pressure 1/3 HP air compressor connected by hose to a 2 square foot airstone in the deepest (12 feet) part of my pond. The system will move 120,000 gal of water per hour and inverts my pond once every 4.8 hours. I have had it since 1998 with no problems. It keeps the area right above the airstone ice free even in 20 below weather and maintains the oxygen content of the pond saturated at 10 parts per million all year round with no stratification. Electrical load is equivalent to a 250 watt light bulb. One large advantage of the system is that all electrical connections and components are on dry land. Using submersible pumps or having electrical connections in a pond that you might use for swimming can be a safety issue. The company from which I purchased the system no longer carries the product, however, it is being carried by another company (Natural Reflections LLC) If you are interested I can provide an e-mail address and a contact name and phone number.
Bill
I use a dedicated low pressure 1/3 HP air compressor connected by hose to a 2 square foot airstone in the deepest (12 feet) part of my pond. The system will move 120,000 gal of water per hour and inverts my pond once every 4.8 hours. I have had it since 1998 with no problems. It keeps the area right above the airstone ice free even in 20 below weather and maintains the oxygen content of the pond saturated at 10 parts per million all year round with no stratification. Electrical load is equivalent to a 250 watt light bulb. One large advantage of the system is that all electrical connections and components are on dry land. Using submersible pumps or having electrical connections in a pond that you might use for swimming can be a safety issue. The company from which I purchased the system no longer carries the product, however, it is being carried by another company (Natural Reflections LLC) If you are interested I can provide an e-mail address and a contact name and phone number.
Bill
That's a good testimonial. Have you had to do any maintenance? I was over on the PondBoss forum, lurking and reading, and read that some airstones get pretty dirty and have to be cleaned with muriatic acid periodically. Some folks were recommending a rubber membrane instead of the airstone for easier cleaning.
I won't have any problems with ice /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif, but I'm interested just the same. I'm interested in the email and contact name; I rarely use the phone. Do you have a rough idea of the cost?
It will be several months before I have electricity to the pond. Regardless of whether I use compressed air, I'll still have a fountain for looks. The pond won't be used for swimming per se, because we're going to have a pool, but the kids and the dogs will play around it, and I like to wade. All of the pump sites mention the risk with a submerged pump; but I wonder what the odds really are of a problem?
I won't have any problems with ice /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif, but I'm interested just the same. I'm interested in the email and contact name; I rarely use the phone. Do you have a rough idea of the cost?
It will be several months before I have electricity to the pond. Regardless of whether I use compressed air, I'll still have a fountain for looks. The pond won't be used for swimming per se, because we're going to have a pool, but the kids and the dogs will play around it, and I like to wade. All of the pump sites mention the risk with a submerged pump; but I wonder what the odds really are of a problem?
SPIKER
Elite Member
DON:
I think by you're statements that the pond if fairly new correct?
why not wait a year or so untill the budget or the pond it's self tells you what it wants or needs? Normally ponds do not need airation unless they are highly protected from sun & wind. both of which will help to turn over the water. Sun warms the bottom and the water rises. wind pushes water from one side to the other and the water goes back via undertoe type ffect. though it will stratify in most cases it is not a bad thing. very rarely will a pond turn over in a bad way. usually airiation or puimps are needed when the pond grows too much alge or weeds choak it out. even then if you are not worried about fish in there or swimming then that is not an issue. one of the guys who have the commercial wind airiation unit has his bcause the pond is shallow and has lots of fish not to mention some ag run off causes alge bloom yearly. the other guy just liked it and has a much smaller pond and more fish. also ahs a high bank on one side to prevent much wind getting to it.
play a little wait and see game if you want. keeping the pond full with the house pump is probalby not the best thing. maybe add in some rain gutter drains and or a sistern and pump form there as needed. the natural evaporation won't harm the pond and a little up/down is good for the edges and small fish/crustations.
Mark m /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I think by you're statements that the pond if fairly new correct?
why not wait a year or so untill the budget or the pond it's self tells you what it wants or needs? Normally ponds do not need airation unless they are highly protected from sun & wind. both of which will help to turn over the water. Sun warms the bottom and the water rises. wind pushes water from one side to the other and the water goes back via undertoe type ffect. though it will stratify in most cases it is not a bad thing. very rarely will a pond turn over in a bad way. usually airiation or puimps are needed when the pond grows too much alge or weeds choak it out. even then if you are not worried about fish in there or swimming then that is not an issue. one of the guys who have the commercial wind airiation unit has his bcause the pond is shallow and has lots of fish not to mention some ag run off causes alge bloom yearly. the other guy just liked it and has a much smaller pond and more fish. also ahs a high bank on one side to prevent much wind getting to it.
play a little wait and see game if you want. keeping the pond full with the house pump is probalby not the best thing. maybe add in some rain gutter drains and or a sistern and pump form there as needed. the natural evaporation won't harm the pond and a little up/down is good for the edges and small fish/crustations.
Mark m /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Yes, it was completed last November. It's about 1/4 acre, about 100' x 110', but slightly kidney-shaped. It has 5:1 slopes near the top, then falls off to steeper banks under water, and has a "hole" in the center that was originally about 16' deep. I haven't checked it, but the contractor was sure that the hole would fill in naturally with the water action, probably to 12' or so. The hole was punched through to get through the hardpan and into the water table -- remember, Florida ponds aren't sealed, they are supplied by the water table.
I don't know if algae will be a problem, but here in Florida, it usually is. Weeds will be a problem. It hasn't been though a summer yet, so I don't know what the intense sun will do to it. Not much hard wind, but a breeze blowing most of the time. It's flat and fairly open.
It's definitely going to get a fountain, because I want a car lift in the barn. Betsy wants a fountain, and I pretend to not want one, so I can justify the cost of my lift against the cost of her fountain. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think the fountain will do a better job of keeping the surface clean.
As far as keeping the water level on an even keel, that's somewhat for looks, but the technical reason is because natural up and down is a mosquito breeder. We'll have enough of a problem with that without all the shoreline being a breeding area. I plan to put in an overflow pipe and cut the balance pretty close so it doesn't rise too much when it rains. Last summer, when we had so much rain I had some flooding on the property, there was a point at dusk when I couldn't breath because of the mosquitoes. The pond, and the resulting fill raising the property, should take care of the flooding...
Bottom line, I think you're right about waiting to see how it behaves before putting in the airstone. It will be late summer before I get electricity to it, anyway (still haven't finished my house design, and therefore haven't pulled any permits), so it will be almost a year.
I don't know if algae will be a problem, but here in Florida, it usually is. Weeds will be a problem. It hasn't been though a summer yet, so I don't know what the intense sun will do to it. Not much hard wind, but a breeze blowing most of the time. It's flat and fairly open.
It's definitely going to get a fountain, because I want a car lift in the barn. Betsy wants a fountain, and I pretend to not want one, so I can justify the cost of my lift against the cost of her fountain. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I think the fountain will do a better job of keeping the surface clean.
As far as keeping the water level on an even keel, that's somewhat for looks, but the technical reason is because natural up and down is a mosquito breeder. We'll have enough of a problem with that without all the shoreline being a breeding area. I plan to put in an overflow pipe and cut the balance pretty close so it doesn't rise too much when it rains. Last summer, when we had so much rain I had some flooding on the property, there was a point at dusk when I couldn't breath because of the mosquitoes. The pond, and the resulting fill raising the property, should take care of the flooding...
Bottom line, I think you're right about waiting to see how it behaves before putting in the airstone. It will be late summer before I get electricity to it, anyway (still haven't finished my house design, and therefore haven't pulled any permits), so it will be almost a year.