Well problems

[paulharvey]

I have a simple 2 wire 240v submersible well pump. I've had some problems with burnt contacts on the pressure switch, so a couple months ago I replaced it. Now, I'll admit, I might not have had air in the bladder tank perfect (approx 28 lbs) and I did play a bit with the pressure adjuster nuts a bit, so I can't say exactly what it's set at.

I had problems for couple months (basically ever since) if I used a lot of water fast, I would have to wait a bit for switch to trip, taking 30 seconds to maybe a couple minutes, then regain water. Today it wouldn't trip, so here we are...

The switch will stop when the pressure switch opens, but not always run when closed. I always have 118 volts to my incoming hots (black and white). When the switch is open I have zero on the motor side (black and red). The kicker is the switch will be closed, pump not running, and 118v on both of the motor wires at times.... give it some time, curse, play with switch, breakers, disconnect, curse more and kick, it will come on for half a cycle maybe, filling pressure tank. It doesn't open the switch most of the time, just stops.

So, is it possible there is some thermal switch or "duty cycle" on the pump it's self that is tripping, and over time resetting (like a welder) or what the heck.

Is my pump doomed. How about a surface suction pump with build in tank ($199) and leave sump, wire, and down pipe in place. I don't really have spare money to call a well guy, and surely don't have the money to pay then to pull, and replace pump (how much would it be 80 ft to bottom, don't know depth to static water level).

Edit: so far, I have direct wiring, black to black, red to white, both read 118 or so volts. Same result, run for a few seconds (5-30 secs), stop, and nothing.

 

[SPIKER]

sounds like a thermal shutoff sw on the motor is going or motor bearing but yes that sounds like new pump time.

short cycling the pump can cause it to go out sooner so make sure tank is set w right air and new switch for new pump.

M

 

[gary49]

The "surface suction pump" you refer to sounds like a shallow well jet pump. Those will only lift water about 25', so that won't work. A clamp on ammeter can help you determine if the switch and pump are operating correctly. When contacts on switch are closed, ammeter should read about 5 amps if you have a 1/2 hp pump. More than that or intermittent readings probably mean trouble down the well. A pump set at 80' is quite easy to pull by hand, usually.

 

[turnkey4099]

The "surface suction pump" you refer to sounds like a shallow well jet pump. Those will only lift water about 25', so that won't work. A clamp on ammeter can help you determine if the switch and pump are operating correctly. When contacts on switch are closed, ammeter should read about 5 amps if you have a 1/2 hp pump. More than that or intermittent readings probably mean trouble down the well. A pump set at 80' is quite easy to pull by hand, usually.

Depends on the static level of the well and the recovery rate. If the static level is less than about 25' a suction pump will work until the drawdown exceeds about 25'

Harry K

 

[KevT]

Your bladder should be set within 5psi of your water pressure. If you pull your pump make sure you have 2 pipe wrenches to hold the pipe as you re-grip your snatch. Personally I would add air to the bladder and change the pressure switch before pulling the pump. If it doesn't help then you will use them on the new pump. My well is only 35 foot and pulling the pump is a PIA, I can't imagine 80 foot

 

[TheGoose]

Sounds like the thermal overload on the pump is tripping out. Are you sure you don't have a low pressure safety switch installed? These will not let the pump come on until the pressure is above 20 psig. You have to hold the lever 1/2 way up until the system has pressure.

 

[Egon]

Use an amp meter first to determine where the problem lies.

 

[paulharvey]

Sounds like the thermal overload on the pump is tripping out. Are you sure you don't have a low pressure safety switch installed? These will not let the pump come on until the pressure is above 20 psig. You have to hold the lever 1/2 way up until the system has pressure.

I do not have one of these.

 

[paulharvey]

I'm going to keep messing with it, and call around Monday. So far, I'm considering

1: I pulled and take to local pump rebuild guy, and either have it rebuilt or get a rebuilt one from him, and reinstall my self

2: call the local pump guy and see how much for him too pull and rebuilt or replace

3: order cheap new pump online, and pull and replace myself, possibly with some help

Does anyone have a rough idea what I would pay to have it pulled and dropped. I'm seeing new pumps in the $299-$350 range for sumps.

Is it possible the thermal switch (which I never new existed, just guessed based on welders) has gone bad, and I could raise and either replace or remove the switch and carry on for a few years

 

[Clint S]

I'm going to keep messing with it, and call around Monday. So far, I'm considering

1: I pulled and take to local pump rebuild guy, and either have it rebuilt or get a rebuilt one from him, and reinstall my self

2: call the local pump guy and see how much for him too pull and rebuilt or replace

3: order cheap new pump online, and pull and replace myself, possibly with some help

Does anyone have a rough idea what I would pay to have it pulled and dropped. I'm seeing new pumps in the $299-$350 range for sumps.

Is it possible the thermal switch (which I never new existed, just guessed based on welders) has gone bad, and I could raise and either replace or remove the switch and carry on for a few years

I am guessing no on the do it yourself thermal switch and there is a high possibility that the switch is not bad and the pump is actually overheating and tripping it. I pulled a reinstalled a pump in an afternoon so a few hours for a pro. I would guess no less than $300 to have a pro do it, possibly more.

 

[paulharvey]

So, talked to local well guy. He confirmed that if a two wire pump is getting power and not coming on, it's the pump with over heat or whatever tripped. He said if he could drive right up to it, pull it, drop new one in; it's $1000. I asked how much the pump was, he said the ones he uses are $500-600.

I see them online at TSC, Home Depot, Lowes, etc starting around $330 for 1/2 hp 10 gpm. I'm seriously thinking about trying to pull and replace my self.

 

[MarkF48]

If you should do the job yourself, inspect the wire carefully as well for abrasion. If they aren't provided with the pump, you'll need a couple of waterproof crimp splices.

Find out what brands of pumps the pump guy sells. I looked at what the Lowes' and Home Depot's sell and read the reviews and left me with the feeling I didn't want to go with either of those. My present pump is a Gould's.

Pic below is the wire that was from my own pump when it failed last fall. I have torque arrestors on the pipe, but it evidently still rotated in the well and wore the wire through. My own pump is at 280'. I've pulled it in the past in my younger days, but now prefer to pay someone that has the right equipment to take care of it.

 

[greenmojo]

Just don't drop it!

Neighbor does his, and built a clamp to hold the PVC while he readjusted his pick point on the pipe. Very similar to the ones that the professionals use, at least the guys who installed mine.

~Moses

 

[turnkey4099]

This probably isn't your problem but I found out about it when my pump seemed to be failing. Water pressure would decline to zero when hydrant opened and then a long delay until pump kicked in. Pressure would then build to way over the normal cut-off.

Problem was the 1/8" riser pipe the pressure switch sits on was plugged up. The first time it happened it was plugged so tightly I had to use a drill to get it back open.

My well pumps very fine black powder and I have to clean that pipe about every 10 years.

Harry K

 

[MarkF48]

Just don't drop it!

Neighbor does his, and built a clamp to hold the PVC while he readjusted his pick point on the pipe. Very similar to the ones that the professionals use, at least the guys who installed mine.

~Moses

The guys that do my well work have a rig like this >>> Well Pump Puller . Brings up 280' in a pretty short time. One guy operates the the puller and another guy pulls what comes out onto the front lawn.

When I put the pump in many years ago I attached a poly safety rope to the pump and its tied off securely to the well head.

 

[drajj5]

If you should do the job yourself, inspect the wire carefully as well for abrasion. If they aren't provided with the pump, you'll need a couple of waterproof crimp splices.

Find out what brands of pumps the pump guy sells. I looked at what the Lowes' and Home Depot's sell and read the reviews and left me with the feeling I didn't want to go with either of those. My present pump is a Gould's.

Pic below is the wire that was from my own pump when it failed last fall. I have torque arrestors on the pipe, but it evidently still rotated in the well and wore the wire through. My own pump is at 280'. I've pulled it in the past in my younger days, but now prefer to pay someone that has the right equipment to take care of it.

View attachment 429549

Mark is spot on, You most likely have a rub in one of your wires and that is the source of you issues. One wire nearly rubbed in two will cause the same problem as you have described. hard to start and run a pump with 20 gauge wire for long without it overheating. You can prove your pump is good before pulling by measuring resistance with your meter. Disconnect power and read between each wire and see if you have a short at the pump or broken wire. However if you read resistance you have a good pump and the problem lies in the wire itself.

 

[RobertBrown]

If your pump is like mine, your switch is wired to a controller (gray box says "Franklin electric" on it) and the controller supplies the motor. There are 2 relays in the box.
One might be hanging up.
Because your tank was out of air or low on air. Your pump may have been short cycling when reached the high pressure cut off point. This is likely if your motor is 2 hp.
Short cycling will make your motor hot and your controller should protect this with 2 circuit breakers. if either of these is bad. It could cause a problem similar to what you are describing.

 

[chopped]

I wasnt aware that there was a regulator with a low water shut off. like this
Amazon.com: Square D FSG2J21M4CP 30/50 PSI Standard Pressure Switch with Low Pressure Cutoff: Home Improvement
Ive been using the standard ones at a 15 dollar cost. With this cost of the low cut off. I think in the future Ill be buying this one.

 

[greenmojo]

I blew up a $2000 pump controller, because I forgot to ground it and was running it from a generator when we first had it drilled and pump installed.

I moved the generator, lost connection to the earth, and *POOF*... Pump installation guys were awesome, called the manufacturer, told them what happened and they shipped me a new one at no charge and sent an RMA for the one I smoked.

~Moses

 

[paulharvey]

Ok, 100 ft of pipe out of ground (not the 80 ft marked on well tag). New pump in hand; and a dump thought comes to mind. 2 wire 230v; is it just any hot to any hot; or can you run it backwards by accident? Pump comes with black, black, and green.