Well pump keeps going out!! 4 in last 6 years!

[Carl_NH]

Wade,

There should be two levels of water - static when not pumping then after drawdown. I would also contact the driller of the well - usually they put their tag on the tank or wellhead.

So this AM you can drop a line with a small nut attached and determine when it hits water for the static level - should be about 80-100' leaving you with 250' of water or about 400 gallons of reserve (1.5 gal / ft in a 6" casing). Then the recovery rate is how fast the inflow to the well is - most well drillers would not consider a 1.5-2GPM sufficient for a house so they drill deeper to create more storage and or find a better vein of water.

I have a deep well 400 feet with the pump set at 365 with a 1.5HP goulds 2 wire. Also have a low pressure cutout switch so when the pump output drops below 15-20 PSI the switch turns off the pump to prevent damaging the pump.

There is a somewhat controversial method I posted some time ago "stone drop method" to determine water level. My pump guy (doing it 30 yrs) say a rough calculation of water level is to drop a pebble in the well, and time it. Typically its 20' a second so 5 seconds tiil you hear it hit water is 100' water level. Instead of a stone drop an ice cube too. This has worked for me and I use this as a simple check for the water level.

The bottom line is you should put in a low pressure cutout switch in place of the existing pressure switch and sounds like a new pump too. Pulling 350' of pump is not easy.. Also when you put in the new one, make sure the pipe is clean and free from grass and debris before installing.

Carl

 

[rswyan]

Our well water has alot of iron .... last time we lost a pump it was due to iron "sludge" having filled up the bottom of the well and completely encased the pump, clogging the inlet .... when they pulled it, it looked like it was covered in red mud.

Solution is to have the well "bailed out" regularly (every 3 to 5 years) .... and we're about due ....

 

[muddstopper]

If you only have 10ft of water over the pump, you only have about 15 gal of water available to pump out. Depending on lift and pump size and recovery rate, your pump could be pumping 14gpm and easily run dry if you take a long shower or several people taking showers one behind the other. If this is the case, you need more storage, maybe a larger pressure tank, and the low pressure cutoff switch, to keep the pump from runig dry while using. Other option is to get the well company to drill the well deeper to gain more storage that way. This will be costly, but you have to have water. You also might want to look into hydrofracking the well to gain more water flow.

As already been mentioned, check wire size and use the depth of pump plus the distance from power supply to calculate the size of wire you should be using.

As for pump size, you can get by with a lot smaller pump if your stactic water level is closer to the top of the well than you can if level is really low. All you need is a pump that will overcome the static water level. I used a 1.5hp pump in a well 613 ft deep and never had a problem in over 8 years of living at that location. The static water level was 35 ft and I only had 1/4gpm of water recovery in that well. When it was drilled, we blew dust off the drill bit when it was extracted from the well. We ended up having the well hydrofracked to get more water. Hydro fracking is the process of pumping water, under very high pressure, into the well to frack/crack the rock and allow more water to flow into the well. No chemicals are used, only water. As a side note, our neighbor across the street had 2 wells and had to switch the pump out between the two every summer because one would run dry. After we fracked our well, it made the water muddy in his well, which quickly cleared up. His well never ran dry again after that, so not only did we improve our water flow, but we also helped his well.

One more comment, There is more than one kind of iron found in wells, the mineral kind, which you can do nothing about, and the bacterial kind. The bacterial kind is usually either white or red. These are the kind that usually cause the slimey sludge build up and the red or green stains in your sinks and tubs. The bacterial kind can easily be controlled using clorine bleach. Lots of people just pour a little clorox, (unscented kind), down their wells every so often to santitize their well. This methoid usually isnt really effective simply because they continue using their water and the bleach never has time to do its work. The proper way is to add the clorine to the well and then turn on every spicket in the house and leave on long enough to allow the clorinated water to flow thru each water line. At that point, turn the water off and let it set for at least 24hrs before using again. This allows the bleach enought time to kill the bacteria, in the well, and the water lines throughout the house. then you can run the water long enought to get rid of the clorine smell and the rust and sludge will disappear. It might come back, but how long it takes is dependant on how well a job you did disinfecting the well in the first place.

 

[thatguy]

tag for more updates later
b

 

[boggen]

if pump is running dry. (not enough water for it) i would imagine you would be getting "air pockets" or spurts of water coming out of the faucet when you turn it on and use it ((check highest faucet you have i house))

as other said double check size of wire you are using.

cavitation could be one as well. cavitation = pump has to pump so hard. that it pulls air bubbles out of the water. air bubbles in the water line is ok, but when the air bubbles hit the blade on pump, it can mess up the blade pretty good. what size pipe runs from pump all the way into the house? to small of pipe can cause undo friction loss. causing pump to really fight to push water up the pipe. and possibly cause cavitation.

will put this out there, perhaps a bad ground and pump is touching side of the metal pipe going down into the well. and shorting some how?

what type of pump is it? make and model number?

if current pump is bad. and out of warranty, tear it apart, and see if there are any tall tell signs of something wrong.

an AIR LOCK, might cause problems, if you have any pipe that goes UP then back down, (upside down U)

====================
not much can really be determined without more details from ya blackrat. until then, it is a guessing game.

 

[crazyal]

Is this a deep well or a shallow well? What is dying on the pump, the motor or the pump? I don't know much about shallow wells.

If it's a deep well and the pump is dying then I would say you are running it dry and need to put it lower in the well if you can or you'll need to drill your well deeper. It's also possible that your pump is too close to the bottom and is sucking up sand or some other form of grit that's killing the pump.

If it's the motor then you may not have a big enough pressure tank. This will make your pump turn on and off too often. Or it could be that you haven't got the right sized pump for your well. The flow and HP of the pump should be sized to your well. If not you could be overworking your motor, not enough to trip a breaker or overload but enough that is causing it to shorten it's life.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Have to pull my well pump again today for the 4th time in 6 years!!! The first pump was installed when the house was built 6 years ago. That one went out 3 years ago on Christmas morning. I replaced it with a Lowes pump simply because that was the only one I could get quickly. That pump went a year later. I took the pump back to Lowes and they would only replace it. So I tried that one and it lasted till last fall. After that one I went and got a quality pump that has a 5 year waranty on it. Last night after everyone had their showers and with absolutely no warning at all the 4th pump stopped working!!!

I checked the volts coming from the house to the pump and I get 240 when the breaker is on and of course 0 when it is off. There was no voltage drop at the head. I guess my only option is to pull the pump again. I would not dread it so bad but it is 350' down!!!!

Any ideas why this is happening so ofter??

Thanks
Wade

Very curious...how much "head" (water above the pump) do you have?
My first guess is the pumps are cavitating.

Hey Roy. Honestly I am not sure of that. I do know that the pipe is wet probaly around the last 10 feet or so from the pump when we pull it. Is there any method we can use to verify??

Thanks
Wade

Im with Roy. 10' is not near enuf to prevent the pump running dry pretty often. Do you ever notice "milky" looking water when you fill a clear glass. Thats tiny bubbles.
larry

if pump is running dry. (not enough water for it) i would imagine you would be getting "air pockets" or spurts of water coming out of the faucet when you turn it on and use it ((check highest faucet you have i house))

as other said double check size of wire you are using.

cavitation could be one as well. cavitation = pump has to pump so hard. that it pulls air bubbles out of the water. air bubbles in the water line is ok, but when the air bubbles hit the blade on pump, it can mess up the blade pretty good. what size pipe runs from pump all the way into the house? to small of pipe can cause undo friction loss. causing pump to really fight to push water up the pipe. and possibly cause cavitation.

will put this out there, perhaps a bad ground and pump is touching side of the metal pipe going down into the well. and shorting some how?

what type of pump is it? make and model number?

if current pump is bad. and out of warranty, tear it apart, and see if there are any tall tell signs of something wrong.

an AIR LOCK, might cause problems, if you have any pipe that goes UP then back down, (upside down U)

====================
not much can really be determined without more details from ya blackrat. until then, it is a guessing game.

Is this a deep well or a shallow well? What is dying on the pump, the motor or the pump? I don't know much about shallow wells.

If it's a deep well and the pump is dying then I would say you are running it dry and need to put it lower in the well if you can or you'll need to drill your well deeper. It's also possible that your pump is too close to the bottom and is sucking up sand or some other form of grit that's killing the pump.

If it's the motor then you may not have a big enough pressure tank. This will make your pump turn on and off too often. Or it could be that you haven't got the right sized pump for your well. The flow and HP of the pump should be sized to your well. If not you could be overworking your motor, not enough to trip a breaker or overload but enough that is causing it to shorten it's life.

Appears to be a lot of info being left behind out there. The OP seems to be gone for the time being.
larry

 

[Qapla]

Is the pump stainless? Many are.

If so, when the pump is out and you look at it in the light does it have a "rainbow" effect to the shiny surface? If so, it has gotten hot.

If your pump is really 350' down the hole and the water level is only 10' above the pump - you do not have a very good well ... If you end up needing to drill another - I'd look for a better well driller if the old one left you with that dry of a hole.

If your water level is 10' from the top of the well and the pump is really 350' down - you probably have a current/voltage drop problem due to wire size/length.

BTW - is your system a 2 or 3 wire? This can have a bearing on the wire size and possible problems.

A 2 wire will have 3 wires running down to the pump and a 3 wire will have 4 wires running down to the pump. With a 3 wire the controller with the capacitors is above ground and with the 2 wire that are part of the pump down the hole.

2 wire systems are more prone to lightening/power surge damage that results in having to pull the pump as anything that goes wrong is down the hole.

With a 3 wire system lighting/power surge will usually take out the above ground controller before any damage is done to the actual pump down the hole. This allows for repairs without having to pull the pump.

 

[clovergamecock]

Hey guys! WOW thanks for all the detailed posts!!! Here is what appears to have happened. When the well pump was kicking on it was banging against the side in several places and broke the wire about 5 feet above the pump. The wire was also skint up in several other places. After pulling the pump up I ran new wire and added those white plastic bumpers that the pipe goes through. I now have water!!!!:thumbsup:

The well is 358 feet total. The pump hits the water at about 80 feet so I have well over 200 feet above the head. It is a 3 wire 10 guage system on a Myers 1hp pump.

Thank you all for the replies!:thumbsup:

Wade

 

[handirifle]

Well a static of 80ft is WAAY better than over 300! Is there something that can be added to "position" the pump in the casing to prevent so much movement on start up?

I am fairly new to wells, but on mine, 400ft, with static of 60ft, and recovery of 8-10 gpm. My pump sits at 380, and mine pumps to a 5500 gal storage tank (fire dept requirement), and then I have a 1.5hp pressure pump and pressure tank to feed the house.

I am surprised at the number of homes that feed their houses right from the submersible. Seems like a bit of overworking those pumps, to me anyway. Even a 1000 gal storage would be better, then you could use a $150 pressure pump to feed the house. Submersibles are expensive, and as the OP pointed out difficult to replace.

Let the submersible kick on, fill the tank, and kick off. Let the pressure pump feed the house. I am sure it would be better suited to more frequent starts.

Just my rambling.