Well pump pipe and electrical wire in the same 4" PVC pipe?

[Rustyiron]

I'm a proponent of pipe, for each rules & regulations aside. If you have a ditch open, a few bucks for pipe is super cheap. Make's repairs easy for both. (lightning) and given enough time, both will eventually fail one way or another, the .50c/ft for pvc 1.25" elec. conduit that you didn't put in will really pizz you off come repair time when your down in that ditch with your shovel.:thumbsup:

 

[grsthegreat]

I take it you have never heard of direct burial cable for 200 amp service from the utility poles to buildings. A 175 length of direct burial cable was utilized for 40+ years at my rural residence without incidence. No conduit required.

How did we all survive for so long without all the governmental regulations and codes in today's world? :confused3:

it all depends on soil type. we have so much rock in the soil here, direct burial wires always fail sooner or later. if you live in sandy area direct burial works fine. in the 30+ years ive been an electrician ive repaired LOTS of direct burial wires...but only 1 buried in conduit...an excavator ripped them out of the ground. And no, by code water and power cannot be run in same pipe. must have 12" separation within a trench.... unless its heat tape.

 

[EddieWalker]

Here in East Texas, we have very few rules and no Code outside of city limits. One thing that both the Water Department and the Power Company require is that at no time, for any reason, is power and water to be in the same trench. It's been a few years, but I think they wanted at least a foot of undisturbed soil between each of them, and if you have to cross lines, power goes above water.

 

[hawkeye08]

When we had some well work done recently (replaced pump, pipe and wire to pump), I mentioned I wanted to save the old wire and use it, the well guy said, Save yourself some time and headache, recycle the pump wire and use the proper wire in conduit. He also mentioned that the submersible pump wire is only approved for in the well and not in conduit. I did not check the code, but plan on recycling my old pump wire and just purchasing what I need elsewhere.

 

[RNeumann]

When we had some well work done recently (replaced pump, pipe and wire to pump), I mentioned I wanted to save the old wire and use it, the well guy said, Save yourself some time and headache, recycle the pump wire and use the proper wire in conduit. He also mentioned that the submersible pump wire is only approved for in the well and not in conduit. I did not check the code, but plan on recycling my old pump wire and just purchasing what I need elsewhere.

The most common copper wire for conduit is THHN. Of all places HD is fairly competitive with regards to price. It’s about the same as my wholesaler. Plus they tend to sell Southwire SIMpull (or some spelling like that) that, while gimmicky, actually helps with friction.

 

[tcreeley]

Ontario Canado must be as cold or colder than here in central Maine. The frost depth recommendation is to shoot for in Central Maine is 5' depth to keep things from freezing - like water lines. I'd reconsider that 4' depth you stated.

Anecdotally they also say an inch of foam around the pipe is the same as 1 foot of dirt. if you can't get to the depth you need. Who knows, but don't drive over your water line during the winter. That drives the frost deeper.

 

[PILOON]

Shucks I have installed water systems with very little soil coverage.
I would use tracing wire as a backup but counted on insulation as my main defence.
I placed the waterline inside of corrugated drain pipe, covered with sand and then laid 16" strips of hi density foam board on top of the drain pipe. That in turn covered with soil.
Our frost depth is generally considered to be 4 ft and so far no problems.

Now our city used foam board under and over the drain pipes and that does not work. IMHO U only want the foam on the top side and fairly wide.
The idea being that the ground is generally at about 40 deg and U want that heat to rise.
On top prevents the cold from going down all while letting the mild (+40) heat to rise.

As to wire, if it is good enough to be permanently in the well water why should it not be OK in a nice dry conduit? But then one has to consider 'code'.

 

[RNeumann]

Shucks I have installed water systems with very little soil coverage.
I would use tracing wire as a backup but counted on insulation as my main defence.
I placed the waterline inside of corrugated drain pipe, covered with sand and then laid 16" strips of hi density foam board on top of the drain pipe. That in turn covered with soil.
Our frost depth is generally considered to be 4 ft and so far no problems.

Now our city used foam board under and over the drain pipes and that does not work. IMHO U only want the foam on the top side and fairly wide.
The idea being that the ground is generally at about 40 deg and U want that heat to rise.
On top prevents the cold from going down all while letting the mild (+40) heat to rise.

As to wire, if it is good enough to be permanently in the well water why should it not be OK in a nice dry conduit? But then one has to consider 'code'.

It’s the rating of the insulation. Some is better a preventing water intrusion and some is better with abrasion and heat.

 

[/pine]

FWIW...hot air rises...heat moves from hot to cold...

 

[chim]

As others have mentioned, installing the wires in the same pipe sounds like a bad idea, if only from a physical damage standpoint.

Using the same trench for separate pipes without clearance between them doesn't sound like a code issue here in the USofA. If there's really something that addresses it in the NEC, someone can help by posting the section.

At work we frequently have situations arise that are initially deemed contrary to either NEC or Company Policy. When investigated, most turn out to be simply a different approach from what we are accustomed to.

I have run into separation requirements, but those were power company (you call them "hydro" way up there?) rules for clearances from lines they owned.

As a side note, if it were mine I'd be a real scofflaw with the wire. I'd get a roll of black poly pipe and run the direct burial well pump wire in it. If direct burial wire is used, the poly pipe wouldn't be a required conduit, just an added measure of physical protection that allows easy replacement if necessary.

Using THHN/THWN in a raceway not approved for electrical usage could be a concern.