Well pump pipe and electrical wire in the same 4" PVC pipe?

[rogerius]

As others have mentioned, installing the wires in the same pipe sounds like a bad idea, if only from a physical damage standpoint.

Using the same trench for separate pipes without clearance between them doesn't sound like a code issue here in the USofA. If there's really something that addresses it in the NEC, someone can help by posting the section.

At work we frequently have situations arise that are initially deemed contrary to either NEC or Company Policy. When investigated, most turn out to be simply a different approach from what we are accustomed to.

I have run into separation requirements, but those were power company (you call them "hydro" way up there?) rules for clearances from lines they owned.

As a side note, if it were mine I'd be a real scofflaw with the wire. I'd get a roll of black poly pipe and run the direct burial well pump wire in it. If direct burial wire is used, the poly pipe wouldn't be a required conduit, just an added measure of physical protection that allows easy replacement if necessary.

Using THHN/THWN in a raceway not approved for electrical usage could be a concern.

Great suggestions from everybody. Thank you all. Looks like I'm creating my own problems in the long run by having both in the same pipe.

Chim, I like your idea with the black poly pipe, very cheap and efficient. I'm wondering how easy will be to feed the wire in the tube. I see the poly tube are coming in role of 100ft so any trick to push the wire in?

 

[chim]

I see the poly tube are coming in role of 100ft so any trick to push the wire in?

Vacuum cleaner at one end, string with either an official "mouse" or a sandwich bag tied to a string at the other (tied into a bowtie shape). If the string is too light for pulling wires, use the string to pull a heavier twine - like poly baling twine - then use the twine to pull the wires. One guy pulls the twine and his bud feeds wires in the other end. 100' would be a cakewalk.

EDIT TO ADD: Mouse:

Greenlee 61 Single Piston for 1" Conduit - All Types – Greenlee Store

 

[RNeumann]

Great suggestions from everybody. Thank you all. Looks like I'm creating my own problems in the long run by having both in the same pipe.

Chim, I like your idea with the black poly pipe, very cheap and efficient. I'm wondering how easy will be to feed the wire in the tube. I see the poly tube are coming in role of 100ft so any trick to push the wire in?

Scarry “homeowner” stuff

 

[prichard]

If I understand what you are saying you would be putting electric wires in sewer conduit not gray electrical conduit which could be disastrous for someone in the future, several accidents in past were plumbers were electrocuted cutting white pipe that was supposed to be water, if I misunderstood please disregard. Charlie.

This is the most glaring issue with this. Electrical wire in water pipe is just waiting to hurt or kill someone. Especially dangerous in a ditch since anyone working there will be well grounded.

 

[grsthegreat]

This is the most glaring issue with this. Electrical wire in water pipe is just waiting to hurt or kill someone. Especially dangerous in a ditch since anyone working there will be well grounded.

Especially down the line when someone tries to cut into water line to do a repair and doesnt know that theres electrical wires in there

 

[prichard]

Especially down the line when someone tries to cut into water line to do a repair and doesnt know that theres electrical wires in there

That's exactly what I was thinking about.

Another issue that came to mind is if the water pipe leaks good luck figuring out where the leak is. Water will exit the 4" pipe wherever it can and likely will be no where near the actual leak.

 

[chim]

Scarry “homeowner” stuff

I find it less scary with the wires in black poly pipe than if they were installed in the (permitted) direct-burial situation. Any metal tool used to hand excavate will go through the wire's insulation like it isn't even there. The poly pipe offers physical protection. If you want, for a little over 30 bucks you can get 1000' of caution tape:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ideal-3...Electrical-Line-Caution-Tape-42-101/202276217

 

[LouNY]

As others have mentioned, installing the wires in the same pipe sounds like a bad idea, if only from a physical damage standpoint.

Using the same trench for separate pipes without clearance between them doesn't sound like a code issue here in the USofA. If there's really something that addresses it in the NEC, someone can help by posting the section.

At work we frequently have situations arise that are initially deemed contrary to either NEC or Company Policy. When investigated, most turn out to be simply a different approach from what we are accustomed to.

I have run into separation requirements, but those were power company (you call them "hydro" way up there?) rules for clearances from lines they owned.

As a side note, if it were mine I'd be a real scofflaw with the wire. I'd get a roll of black poly pipe and run the direct burial well pump wire in it. If direct burial wire is used, the poly pipe wouldn't be a required conduit, just an added measure of physical protection that allows easy replacement if necessary.

Using THHN/THWN in a raceway not approved for electrical usage could be a concern.

When I installed my pump, water line and electrical for that is what I did, I used 1 1/4" thickwall poly for the waterline and 1" for the pump power feed which I transitioned to schedule 80 PVC to come up the side of the casing, used the same pump wire in the poly pipe as went down the well, 150' in the well and 125' in the ditch over 20 years ago still working good.

 

[Apsterbobed]

The house that I purchased had the well installed just like you want to, water and electric in a 4" schedule 20 white pipe. House was built in mid 80's and guess what I had to fix a few years back! Yup the electric to the well shorted out. At first I was thinking this pipe was great because I could use the old wire to pull in the new one (we do this in conduit all the time). Nope wire won't budge couldn't get a snake in either. Pipe is only about 80' but it runs under the garage slab. Ended up pulling a new wire from the basement through the garage attic and down the exterior wall then through a new trench! Trust me put the electric in its own conduit!

Also I second the vacume and string, best way to get the wire in! Had a friend ask me years ago how we get the rope in to pull feeder cables. After I explained it to him he told me he was trying to push the rope through 10' of conduit at a time as he was gluing it together in the trench, when that didn't work well (pushing rope) they tied it to a broom handle and threw that through 10' at a time. Him and his helper spent all day installing 150' of conduit.