Well pump question.

[MDM]

I have a .5 HP deep well pump set at 125'. It is pumping water up to the house but won't build any more pressure in the pressure tank than 22lbs. It runs steady at 22lbs and won't kick off. Almost like there is a leak in the line somewhere. Can a pump go bad to where it can lift water 125' but won't build any pressure beyond 22 lbs?

I thought the driller had told me that a pump would either work or it would not, there was no in between.

I'm trying to determine if it is the pump or a leak in the line. This well is 1 yr old. the ground right next to the pitless adapter is super saturated. Saturated enough to where I can stick a piece of rebar right down in the ground to the bottom of the trench the line lays in. This makes me think I have a leak at the pitless adaper. On the other hand we have had a lot of rain and the lay of the ground is such that this is a natural drainage collection point point. Alot of water drains to this point. I thought the trench might be holding water. The ground is still settling where I filled the trench in and this point would be a natural place for water to collect.

 

[caver]

Sounds like your pressure tank is waterlogged.

 

[MDM]

Its not the pressure tank. I have a second well that is tied into the same pressure tank and water line and it runs perfectly.

As a matter of fact the line from the other well is tied into the line from the new well. The old well will build pressure and the pressure does not leak off. This tells me there is no leak and it is the pump. You would think the pressure would bleed off if there was indeed a leak.

Is it possible for the impellers to go bad on a pump to where it will pump, but not at full capacity?

 

[gerard]

Sounds like your pressure tank is waterlogged.

constant cycling with small water draws is explained by a waterlogged air bag in the pressure tank but I don't think it explains this situation. My pump kicks off at around 40 psi and even if the airbladder inside the pressure tank is waterlogged the pump should generate around 40psi in the line (assuming you have no facets open and the pump is "deadheading". If it's only generating 22 psi a break in the line somewhere sounds more likely. Shut the pump off and test the air baldder pressure with a regular tire guage. There should be a schraeder valve on it somewhere. It should say right on the tank what the pressure should be. If that's ok you've at least eliminated one problem.

 

[Egon]

It would sound like the new pump needs looking at.

 

[firedog]

Is it possible for the impellers to go bad on a pump to where it will pump, but not at full capacity?

Yes....If it's a two stage impeller and you lose one then it will roughly be half the normal operating psi. We use a two stage jet pump that normally operates at 90 psi, same thing happened a few years ago. Pump was running constantly at about 45 psi.

 

[schmism]

I suppose a .5 hp pump can be made to run just about any kind of pressure (at some very small flow rate) but it sounds to me like your just not building enough pressure to kick it off.

if the pump is designed for 100' of head, and your running at 125' you just wont get enough pressure out of it to have it kick off. by that i mean your pressure tank is set at ~60 psi (give or take) if you never reach it, then the pump never gets a signal to shut off. my shallow well pump does this depending on the flow rate.

Can a pump go bad to where it can lift water 125' but won't build any pressure beyond 22 lbs?

the above is not really defined as "bad". simply a function of physics

1.0 psi = 2.31 feet of head

keep going up, the pressure keeps dropping, lower the head, the pressure will increase.

 

[tommu56]

MDM


T had the soft ground issue at my old house after a long freeze spell. I found that they backfilled with out compacting and it cracked the plastic adaptor at the pitless adaptor it was just a small crack. When I dug it up and had my wife turn well pump back on it sprayed water 20 ft in to the air.

Dig it up and you will most likely see the same thing.

tom

 

[MDM]

The pump is not new. I got it from my FIL, I would guess it to be a 15-20yrs old. It worked and pumped right for a year. My pressure tank is set at 28 and 48 lbs. As I said, I have another well and it is tied into the same line. I charged the pressure tank to 48 lbs before I went to bed. I checked it early this morning and nothing had bled off.

I think I will pull the pump off of the pitless and hang it over the well head and kick it on to see what kind of pressure I am getting. I'm just dreading pulling the pump because it is so darn heavy with the pump and 125' of line with water in it.

 

[WVBill]

You say that both well pumps are connected to the same line feeding the pressure tank. Perhaps this connection has failed and when the one pump turns on it pressurizes the tank but when the other pump turns on it's pumping water down the other well instead of into the pressure tank.

Just a thought.

WVBill

 

[MDM]

The connection of the two lines is in my basement, so I would be able to see any connection failure. I appreciate all of the input though. I done some reading on a pump website. My pump has 8 stages of impellers. It says abrasives in the water can cause impeller wear which can cause low pressure. The well is a year old and it definetly has abrasives in it. It has not completely cleared up yet. I'm suspecting now that some of the impellers are worn out.

 

[Egon]

Have you convinced yourself that you have to pull the pump as has been in the back of your mind from before the first post??

Do it!

 

[dbdartman]

Is it possible for the impellers to go bad on a pump to where it will pump, but not at full capacity?

Yes, dirt/sand/grit in the water will wear the impellers.

 

[gerard]

Have you convinced yourself that you have to pull the pump as has been in the back of your mind from before the first post??

Do it!

I second Egon but would consider having a well company do it. They use a tripod set up that makes it a pretty quick job compared to doing it yourself. I'm a big proponent of doing as much myself as possible but some things are just better left to pros! (or maybe I'm just gettin lazy in my old age - that's a possiblity too!!)

 

[RonMar]

Where are the check valves located at in the system? Do you have more than 2(one on each pump line and one at the pressure tank inlet)? If you did, I could see a scenario where one is pumping some water down the other well past a bad checkvalve. Are there hand operated valves to completely isolate the two pumps? If there are, I would do this to rule out that possibility before I would pull the pump. I would also probably try and see if I could build pressure at the well head, as well as measure the electrical voltage drop at the wellhead(garbage in, garbage out)...

Good Luck.

 

[VA_Joe]

Some advice based on just doing this a few of months ago:

If you do need to pull it - have a friends available to help. If the pipe has water in it - it will be extremely heavy. You will probably need to build a simple rig with 2x4s and a pulley to lift it out (BTW - hanging a pulley off a tractor bucket would be a simple replacement for the 2x4 rigging - wish I thought of this earlier). Even without water, the outside of the pipe will be muddy, slippery, and difficult to grip. Once you start pulling - you can't stop or it will go back in the well. With a friend - you can take turns pulling/resting (not doing this was a mistake I regretted the next day).

If you do need to pull it - replace everything (pump, electrical wire, check valves, pull rope, black pipe, torque arrestors, etc.) as it is not worth doing again. A pro will charge anywhere from $1800 to $2500 just to replace the pump (quotes that I got for a well a little deeper than yours) and doing it yourself will cost about $600 if you replace everything in the well (the brass check valves were about $20 a piece). BTW - Put a brass check valve at both ends (at the pump and at the top of the pipe run). Don't depend on the plastic check valve built into the pump to last.

Make sure you heat shrink your electrical connections (Lowes sells the kit) and loosely tape the electrical wire to the black pipe (otherwise it will scrape against the side of the well casing and eventually short out). BTW - you can't use just any electrical wire - plumbing supply shops sell a special yellow wire that is designed especially for use with submersible pumps. Lowes sometimes has it too.

Plenty of sites to show you how to do all this (just can't find any of them in my bookmarks - try google). Good luck - hope things work out for you.

Joe

I just reread the above and am a bit confused about which well you are talking about. Did the installer use a 15-20 year old pump in a new well? Does not make sense why an installer would do this as the pump is only 5 - 10 percent the cost of drilling the well (and not a good way to earn a happy customer). Did he also reuse the black pipe and check valves from the other well? Impeller failure or small break in pipe (i.e. leak under pressure) are the two most likely problems. Wish you well.

 

[MDM]

I istalled the pump on this new well. I have an older well too. I used an older pump that was still working in the new well. I'm glad I didn't get a new one since the water has never completly cleared up. I hate to put a new pump in it without clear water. It is as clear as it has ever been right now, so I guess I will put a new one in it. After I check the pump out. If may be a simple case of the strainer being plugged up.

 

[Steve_Miller]

I have a .5 HP deep well pump set at 125'. It is pumping water up to the house but won't build any more pressure in the pressure tank than 22lbs. It runs steady at 22lbs and won't kick off. Almost like there is a leak in the line somewhere. Can a pump go bad to where it can lift water 125' but won't build any pressure beyond 22 lbs?

I thought the driller had told me that a pump would either work or it would not, there was no in between.

I'm trying to determine if it is the pump or a leak in the line. This well is 1 yr old. the ground right next to the pitless adapter is super saturated. Saturated enough to where I can stick a piece of rebar right down in the ground to the bottom of the trench the line lays in. This makes me think I have a leak at the pitless adaper. On the other hand we have had a lot of rain and the lay of the ground is such that this is a natural drainage collection point point. Alot of water drains to this point. I thought the trench might be holding water. The ground is still settling where I filled the trench in and this point would be a natural place for water to collect.

With the saturated ground comments, I would say your pitless adapter is leaking or something somewhere in that vicinity. In my opinion, if the impeller were to wear to the point of not being able to produce enough pressure you would have seen this problem long before now with your switch set at 28 - 48psi.

Steve

 

[VA_Joe]

With the saturated ground comments, I would say your pitless adapter is leaking or something somewhere in that vicinity. In my opinion, if the impeller were to wear to the point of not being able to produce enough pressure you would have seen this problem long before now with your switch set at 28 - 48psi.

Steve

Makes a good point. Sorry - I didn't realize that you had done the install - you already know how much of a pain this is. I only wanted to make sure you knew what to expect. Eliminate all possibilities before replacing pump. Putting pump in is easy - taking it out is not. The saturated ground is a good clue that you may have a leak under pressure. If it was later in the year - the extra green grass would also be a clue. Time to get out the backhoe and have some fun. Good luck.

Joe

 

[zzvyb6]

The same thing happened to me (almost same depth). It was a pinhole in the drop pipe at about 80'.

Another way to tell is when you power off the motor, the pressure (your 22psi) falls off.

A front end loader and a chain can help you pull up the unit. Be prepared with all new pipe. Its worth the cost to be free of leaks, rust, calcium and worry. If you are handy, make a pipe gripper from a piece of 1/2"`flat stock.

Of course, there's the stone/dirt in the check valve issue....