Well pump with breaker AND fuse?

[dmccarty]

Right our wrong, our old house which was built in the mid 70s had a power disconnect that was fused for the heat pump.

I need to check what we have at the new house. I am pretty sure we have a disconnect out by the heat pump but I don't know if it is fused. If it is fused I need a replacement.

I WISH we had a disconnect at the well house. The water pressure from the well has been "funky". Running tests was a PITA with the circuit breaker being 100 feet from the pump. Replacing the pressure switch yesterday required me and the wife to use the cell phones to coordinate some diagnostic testing on the well and the switch replacement.

I still used a multi meter to make sure she was not trying to get my insurance by telling me the power was off when in fact it was on. :laughing:

Later,
Dan

 

[Richard]

Did you read the link I posted?

Yes, presuming this was the part

S and T fuses are heavy duty time delay fuses and used for circuits having critical or high motor loads or circuits having motors that cycle on and off often (e.g. a sump pump). These fuses have a longer time delay feature than the TL or SL fuses. However, just like the TL and SL fuses, the only difference between the "T" and the "S" fuses are the types of bases. The "T" fuse uses an Edison base and the "S" fuse uses a Rejection base.
These fuses work by use of a spring loaded metal fuse link attached to a solder plug. If the overloaded circuit condition continues for too long, the solder plug melts and the spring pulls the fuse link free, cutting power to the circuit. This allows the fuse to absorb a longer temporary circuit overload.

The thing is (if you will pardon my ignorance) it seems to me similar to the weakest link theory?

If these are longer delay fuses.... and my breaker box is STILL a "quick" blow breaker.... then the entire system will still be as quick as the quickest tripping part in it, no?

I'm presuming that you read my comments where I have BOTH a circuit breaker controlling this line as well as these in line fuses. If a slow blow is better to have, then why are they on the breaker line. If the breaker is going to blow quicker than the burn through type...then why have the burn through type.

Simply doesn't make sense to me unless again.... it's all they had with them when they did the install and put it in for ease of finishing.

Does anyone know of any local code (to them) where this is required??

 

[2manyrocks]

If the breaker and the fuse are appropriately sized, I can't see that it makes any difference. My Dad preferred fuses because he said that breakers could stick in place and not trip when they were supposed to. I would think breakers could be worse in a pump house location than fuses because of moisture messing with the mechanical action of the breaker.

He also recommended that I cycle my breakers at least once a year to be sure they weren't sticking.

 

[Richard]

Here's a picture of the item I'm referring to.

Also, seeing as there are evidently more than one type of screw in fuse, are these the correct ones? (I'd rather find out prior to needing them )

Also, in case I mislead anyone....these are not in any kind of a well house, but rather, in a finished bathroom closet in my basement (full bath & washer/dryer)

 

[PILOON]

Interesting:
Your pics show a 220 switch box (2 fuses) but the wireing is 110 type, black & white. (220 should be Red & Black)
Generally when 220 is wired with 110 wire stock the electrician will tape the white wire at both ends with red tape to indicate the changeover to 220. Simplifies guessing.

Using a switch/fuse box as a local cut off is a very common practice for pump installations around here. Cheap and cost effective way of providing a 'safety cut off'.
A breaker type cut off would cost 2-3 times more, and higher amp simple 220 toggle switches cost about same if not more than than a breaker knife switch.

Also I can vouch that wireing a 20 or 30 amp circuit into a 'normal' toggle switch is a real pain and often results in broken switches due to the very stiffness of heavier guage wires being stuffed into the box.

 

[arrabil]

NEC requires a disconnect switch for any permanent motors. NEC also specifies that circuit breakers are not to be used as switches. So you would need a breaker box with a separate switch to replace what you have now. That will easily cost 20 times the price of some extra fuses.

And I don't believe you can wire a pump into a "normal" toggle switch. You'd have to have two switches, one for each hot wire, and that would also be against NEC which states the disconnect has to disengage both hot wires simultaneously.

I don't understand why you guys want to make more work for yourselves. Buy an extra set of fuses and keep on them on top of the box.

 

[Richard]

NEC requires a disconnect switch for any permanent motors. NEC also specifies that circuit breakers are not to be used as switches. So you would need a breaker box with a separate switch to replace what you have now. That will easily cost 20 times the price of some extra fuses.

And I don't believe you can wire a pump into a "normal" toggle switch. You'd have to have two switches, one for each hot wire, and that would also be against NEC which states the disconnect has to disengage both hot wires simultaneously.

I don't understand why you guys want to make more work for yourselves. Buy an extra set of fuses and keep on them on top of the box.

1. I'm not looking to replace anything. I just want to understand why I have breakers AND fuses on same circuit. Seems screwey to me.

2. Did you notice the original comments about having BOTH fuses and circuit breakers on this same circuit?

I just can not get my head wrapped around 'why' (not that it matters) you would have fuses coming into a line AFTER your circuit breaker. If there is a breaker in my distribution panel dedicated to this circuit then putting a fuse in only complicates things in my book.

Had I not noticed this and my fuse burnt...(or just one of them?) I would have had FITS trying to figure it out.

I still don't get it. I DO understand that having a circuit breaker offers some protection agasint certain things happening. I also understand that absent that, adding fuses protects agasint certain things happening.

It seems to me that the "things happening" are essentially the same things in both circumstances so now we have two safety items trying to protect agasint the same things and now, the system will go into 'safety mode' (trip or burn) when the LESSOR stabil of the two jumps into action.

I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing....it just confuses me as to why. (I'm retentive on wanting to know why things are the way they are....always drove my mother nuts as a child )

 

[arrabil]

I don't really know. I don't remember the specific parts of the NEC. I think every disconnect box must be protected and I showed you a link that said critical circuits and cycling motors are better protected by fuses. So there is your answer. Why thats true...

What would concern me is why you had a fuse blow in the first place. Particularly on one line and not both. That is what I'd be getting to the bottom of.

 

[jinman]

Richard, I may have been the one who misled people into thinking you had an outside wellhouse. That was what I indicated in my first post. Sorry...

I'm curious now if your pump is 220 or 110. Is the breaker a double or single breaker? If you have a 110 pump, that dual fuse box would be a fuse in both the hot and neutral line. That really would be wacky.

 

[Richard]

Richard, I may have been the one who misled people into thinking you had an outside wellhouse. That was what I indicated in my first post. Sorry...

No problem... you can go listen to 20 minutes of Marie Osmond singing Paper Roses as your punishment... :laughing:

I'm curious now if your pump is 220 or 110. Is the breaker a double or single breaker? If you have a 110 pump, that dual fuse box would be a fuse in both the hot and neutral line. That really would be wacky.

It's on a 220v breaker, 30A if I recall (but don't hold me to that as I've not looked at it in probably a year or more)

Regarding the color of the wires, I don't know what wires go where. As I recall, there is a conduit coming into the bottom of this. Probably a 12-2 w/g, individual wires.

On the right wall is the controller box or what ever it's called that controls the pump itself.

If memory serves me, and it very well might not... I'm at work so am working on memory here.

If memory serves me, the black/white wires in this box are perhaps also connected to the pressure switch at my tank?

As I'm looking at this and reflecting on some other poor memories... I'm beginning to wonder if my entire premise is incorrect?

I'll try to remember to get a picture when I get home of the rest of the system.

As I recall, I've got a heavy wire (10g?) going to the control box for the pump. This is probably the double pole breaker at my box that I'm thinking about. I'll need to look and see if I have the heavy wire going into as well as out of this control box. (inplying input from my distribution panel and exit to pump itself)

This box is on the right side of this closet. There might be some wires that come out of this control box down to the pressure switch, OR, the wires might come from this box to the pressure switch, OR, it could be both. I don't remember.

Now that I've made a public spectical of myself, I will probably discover I screwed up the description of it and will soon find myself joining you in the doghouse listening to my own 20 minutes of Paper Roses......

I'll bring the :drink: