Well Storage Tank

[Billy_S]

I am not at all sure I am using the right nomenclature here, but let me try anyway. I am completely ignorant on this issue.

I have a well. There is about a 6 inch pipe that sticks up out of the ground. On top of this pipe is some type of cap device that appears to be a pump. I believe this is called a pitless adapter.

In the house, there is a storage tank type of device. This tank has a guage and a valve like tires have to fill them. I would guess the capacity of the tank to be about 20 gallons.

About once a year, this storage tank starts cycling more than normal and making a strange noise. When this happens, we call the service man. I don't know what he does but whatever it is doesn't take long, costs $75 and involves a small air compressor. We are now faced with this situation again. Can anyone tell me how to perform this service myself or, for that matter, if I should?

Thanks a lot and sorry to be so stupid. There are MANY things I know nothing about and plumbing stuff definitely qualifies.

 

[dubba]

Here's a quote from the well x trol tank specs, use at your own risk.

The installer of the pressure tank should adjust the pressure in the tank, for their particular installation. The pressure tank should be set to approximately 2 psi less than the application's lowest pressure switch setting. For example, adjust pressure tank air pressure to 28 psi if using a 30/50 pressure switch or 38 psi if using a 40/60 pressure switch.

 

[Dusty]

The pitless adapter is the device that connects the pipe that goes down the well to the pipe that goes across your lawn and into the house. The pitless adapter is located under the frost level and can only be seen when you shine a flashlight into the well. It is located on the side of the steel casing below ground level.
The storage tank in the house is a bladder type pressure tank. Over time, they start to loose the pressure in the tank that is located above the bladder. When this happens, you have to drain the tank and set the pressure as described in the post above. You should first check to make sure that the bladder isn't ruptured. To do this, you allow some air to escape before you bleed the tank down. If you get water spurting out the air valve, then the bladder has ruptured and allowed the water into the space where there is supposed to be only air. When this happens, it is time to replace the tank. You will need to know the pressure settings of your well contact switch before setting the pressure. Sometimes they are marked on the switch, but you have no idea if they have been manually changed from the original factory settings. Dusty

 

[HomeBrew2]

Turn well breaker off.
Drain tank completely.
Use an OILLESS compressor to pressurize per dubba's specs.
Turn well breaker back on.
Buy $75 worth of beer

 

[Billy_S]

You guys have been very helpful and it looks like I might be able to save myself the $75 and tackle this project on my own. Keeping in mind my ignorance, please verify my understanding of the procedure involved.

1. Unplug the tank from the wall and turn off the breaker for the well pump.

2. Press on the valve core thing to see if water comes out. If water does come out, call the service guy. If no water comes out, proceed to step 3.

3. Turn on a faucet until water quits running.

4. Close the faucet.

5. I believe my pump kicks on at 40 psi and off at 60 psi. If that is the case, pump air into the valve to 38 psi. I will use my portable air tank for this, rather than my air compressor.

6. Reconnect power to the tank.

7. Buy beer.

Is this right?

 

[HomeBrew2]

It would sure be nice to see a pic of the tank to be sure it's a bladder tank. I agree that it probably is but have seen some really small non-bladder tanks.
If it's a non-bladder tank, and it's waterlogged, it might still squirt water out the top. Just trying to verify to save a service call if it spits.

1. Ok. (Not sure why the tank is plugged into the wall though)
2. Ok.
3. Depends on where the faucet is. We need to make sure the tank is drained. There may be a plug on the tank or may have to take apart some plumbing at the tank. If the plumbing comes straight out of the bottom of the tank and there is a faucet downhill from there, probably will drain it. If you can turn off a valve so water stays in the house pipes, draining won't take as long and you won't have to bleed all the house fixtures.
4. Ok.
5. Probably ok. The idea is to not get an oily taste imparted to your water. That's why I use a small emergency 12V (oilless) compressor (takes a long time) or an oilless shop compressor.
6. ... and well pump.
7.

 

[Billy_S]

Cool. Again, very helpful.

Before I posted my original question, I called the guy who serviced it last time. He was supposed to call back tomorrow but he just called a few minutes ago. Believe it or not, he was willing to walk me thru the process over the phone. I didn't figure he would do that because of losing the income, but he did. He said exactly what you guys said to do. Guess who I will be calling when I have a REAL problem. He never even hesitated to give me the information. I am impressed with him as well as you gentlemen.

Thanks a lot to all.

 

[RonMar]

You can also use a hand bicycle pump, but depending on the size of the tank, this could take a while. Also make sure that the bicycle valve stem fitting on the top has a screw on cap with a good rubber seal installed. This could explain the repeated annual need for service. The one I have now, has been inplace untouched for at least 6 years. If it was a bladder slowly leaking down, I would suspect that the time between failures would start to decrease. If the tank was installed correctly, you should find a drain valve/garden hose fitting near the bottom of the tank to facilitate draining it.

I am guessing that the tank plug-in is for a heater to keep a tank in an unheated/exposed location from freezing?

 

[gordon21]

One last suggestion. Make sure the core of the air valve is tight. They screw in. Use one of the caps that have the two prongs on it that are designed to take the cores in and out.

If you ever have a slow leak on a vehicle tire that drives you nuts and can't find a puncture, it may be the core leaking. Tighten the core and make sure a metal style cap is on tight.

 

[turnkey4099]

Just a few add-ons to the above posts.

Checking to see if the bladder is broken. No water will come out unless the tank is totally waterlogged (unlikely). The fact that you have to repeatedly add air is about the only clue I know of that shows the bladder is broken (or that the valve is leaking ) There is no way other than the valve for the air to leak out unless it is a broken bladder (or a puncture in the tank ).

A bladder tank in good condition is practically 'set and forget' although the pressure should be checked occasionally.

You can check your pressure settings by just watching the pressure gauge. Note what is when the pump kicks in and out. There should be a 20psi difference.

I would replace the tank as the bladder does appear to be broken. I am surprised that your plumber hasn't mentioned that. New tanks are not that spendy.

Harry K

 

[Billy_S]

I performed the service, as suggested, last night and all went well. Problem solved.

I think the plumber did say that the bladder was probably bad, but seeing as how it only needs to be "fixed" once a year, he suggested letting it get worse before we spend the money.

 

[turnkey4099]

I performed the service, as suggested, last night and all went well. Problem solved.

I think the plumber did say that the bladder was probably bad, but seeing as how it only needs to be "fixed" once a year, he suggested letting it get worse before we spend the money.

I can't speak to the truth of this but it does seem logical. When a bladder breaks, there will be some water trapped on the wrong side of it and that can turn stagnant.

As for replacing the tank. There should be no need for a plumber, it is only a matter of disconnecting one union at the tank input/output and reconnecting the new tank. That is a bit simplified but it is about all there is to the job. Leaving the old one in and adding air when you notice the problem is not doing your pump any good.

Harry K

 

[Billy_S]

<snipped>There should be no need for a plumber, <snipped>

You clearly know nothing about my plumbing abilities.

 

[Phils]

"You clearly know nothing about my plumbing abilities."

You don't need to know any plumbing, just pretend it's a hydraulic accumulator tank for your tractor!

Phil

 

[Dusty]

........it is only a matter of disconnecting one union at the tank input/output and reconnecting the new tank. ........Harry K

You assume that there is a union..... I have seen installations where they didn't use a union at all. Also, physical tank sizes have changed over the years. I have 3 tanks in tandem in my home, and one of them is so old, that they no longer make that physical size. Dusty

 

[scesnick]

You guys have been very helpful and it looks like I might be able to save myself the $75 and tackle this project on my own. Keeping in mind my ignorance, please verify my understanding of the procedure involved.

1. Unplug the tank from the wall and turn off the breaker for the well pump.

2. Press on the valve core thing to see if water comes out. If water does come out, call the service guy. If no water comes out, proceed to step 3.

3. Turn on a faucet until water quits running.

4. Close the faucet.

5. I believe my pump kicks on at 40 psi and off at 60 psi. If that is the case, pump air into the valve to 38 psi. I will use my portable air tank for this, rather than my air compressor.

6. Reconnect power to the tank.

7. Buy beer.

Is this right?

I think I would put #7 in #1's spot !!!

 

[_RaT_]

I can't speak to the truth of this but it does seem logical. When a bladder breaks, there will be some water trapped on the wrong side of it and that can turn stagnant.

As for replacing the tank. There should be no need for a plumber, it is only a matter of disconnecting one union at the tank input/output and reconnecting the new tank. That is a bit simplified but it is about all there is to the job. Leaving the old one in and adding air when you notice the problem is not doing your pump any good.

Harry K

Every tank that I have replaced that had a leaking bladder also leaked water out the top of the tank as an indicator the bladder was compromised. Keeping the precharge at 2 PSI below cut in pressure is a good way to help give extra life to the bladder. As the tank is draining and the breaker to the pump off, listen for the pressure switch to "click in". At that point note the pressure on your gauge. That is your cut in pressure. If your pump ever goes out, you might consider a frequency driven pump instead, it basically can eliminate the need for a pressure tank and give you a constant pressure. It is also easy on the pump motor and wire/pipe in the well as it slowly ramps to speed rather then kicking in instantly.

 

[turnkey4099]

I think I would put #7 in #1's spot !!!

Of course. Always assemble all needed tools before beginning the job!

Harry K

 

[turnkey4099]

Every tank that I have replaced that had a leaking bladder also leaked water out the top of the tank as an indicator the bladder was compromised. Keeping the precharge at 2 PSI below cut in pressure is a good way to help give extra life to the bladder. As the tank is draining and the breaker to the pump off, listen for the pressure switch to "click in". At that point note the pressure on your gauge. That is your cut in pressure. If your pump ever goes out, you might consider a frequency driven pump instead, it basically can eliminate the need for a pressure tank and give you a constant pressure. It is also easy on the pump motor and wire/pipe in the well as it slowly ramps to speed rather then kicking in instantly.

As the air valve is on the top of the tank, no water can come out until the air bubble is totally (or almost so) gone. At least all that I have seen have the valve up there. By the time that happens, there are all kinds of other indications that there is a problem and most likely a blown bladder (short cycling/pump hammering off and on).

Constanct pressure pumps/controllers as you mention are a 'good thing' IMO. Never had one or messed with one but they do sound nice.

Harry K

 

[_RaT_]

As the air valve is on the top of the tank, no water can come out until the air bubble is totally (or almost so) gone. At least all that I have seen have the valve up there. By the time that happens, there are all kinds of other indications that there is a problem and most likely a blown bladder (short cycling/pump hammering off and on).

Constanct pressure pumps/controllers as you mention are a 'good thing' IMO. Never had one or messed with one but they do sound nice.

Harry K

I've not seen the water leak from the schrader valve but from the very top and center of the tank where there is often a opening. Often the air fill vlave is off to the side and top of the tank. The water goes around the bladder and makes its way to the top. At about 2/3rds down the tank is typically a circular indentation. That is where the bladder is attached.