What creates "bad diesel" fuel ?

[CADplans]

I purchased my JD 4105 in 2016, used.
The tractor had sat on the dealers lot for over a year.
I am convinced that the PO used bio-diesel, or some such concoction.
the tractor did not seem to run right,,

Well I drained that, and saved the fuel drained for "brush burning"
(I drained 6 gallons)

I just got around to using that fuel,, it is a bright, clear looking green.
I think it may be still OK,,
It sure burned the brush nicely,,

That fuel was probably 6 years old,, when I finally burned the brush with it.
as far as looks,, it looked perfect.

I still have 2 gallons to go,,,

 

[Cougsfan]

My 2 cents.
Red diesel in my local rural farming area gas station probably outsells their on-road diesel. The difference; they sell 200 gallons at a time of red diesel to fill large transfer tanks on the back of pick-up rather than 20-30 gallons to fill the pick-up itself. However in the winter, red dye sales drop off drastically.

I don't know if I am lucky or stupid, but I have never had a problem with diesel. I have had my old diesel truck set for long periods of time with less than a half tank full without problems. I have two jerry cans that I use for back-up fuel for my tractor (I usually use my 6 ea 5 gallon plastic containers to haul diesel for my tractors) I have had those Jerry cans set full for literally years and have never had a problem. I never use any additives. I change fuel filters in my equipment every decade or so, just because.

My guess is that it has to do with who refines the diesel and how it is made. I have heard stories that biodiesel is more prone to have biological growth in it, and to have a significant pH variation. That is supposedly because as it has not set underground for millions of years to allow microbial activities to fully finish. But I don't know that for a fact, but it has created a prejudice in me to avoid using biodiesel if I can. And that creates a bit of duplicity for me because I really like the concept of biodiesel.

 

[Bavarian]

What creates "bad diesel" fuel ?​

How the fuel is handled after it is made determines whether you engine gets "bad diesel" fuel. i don't believe the refineries make a run of "bad diesel" and then market it. Some of the fuel problems can be caused by the distributor who stores the fuel, some can be caused by the people who sell you the fuel, and some of it caused by the way you, the end user, handles the fuel.
You can't do much about the distributor or fuel supplier handles fuel except to vote with your dollars. If you get a load of questionable fuel, call your supplier and tell him. They want your business so they'll either make it right or you can find another supplier.

The only fuel problem I ever encountered was on a tractor that I bought. I had just brought it to our Montana ranch from New Mexico and before I got it off the trailer, the temperature dropped below freezing. I drove it out to feed the cows and it ran down on me. I had ice in the water separator and in the fuel filter. I used a heat gun to thaw the filter and water separator out and drained the water out. I thought that was the fix. I drove out again and had a run down. Once again, water in separator and the filter have frozen. I suctioned out the water from the bottom of the tank and I removed about a quart of water. I knew I didn't get it all but I could not get any more out of the tank. Before starting, there after, I drained the water separator and the fuel filter before every start into a clear glass jar. I could see the water that these devices trapped. I treated the fuel with PS White and continued this routine until I had no more water in the drainage. No more problems. I don't know whether the previous owner had a supply problem or had a "wet" storage tank. But I never had a problem again. I check my storage tanks every year and treat the fuel with Power Service. (It's not my intention to plug Power Service. It is just what I use and it works for me in my equipment management system.) I have a filter on my supply hose. I pay attention to make sure that I have winter diesel in the cold months and PS White helps reduce the pour point and helps any water to accrete on the fuel filter and drop to the bottom to be drained off.
I try to keep my tractor tanks full to minimize condensation and I buy my fuel from a service station that sells a lot of red dye diesel.

You folks who live in humid climates need to really manage your fuel to minimize condensation. If you have bacteria (it's not "algae" - algae is a plant that requires sunlight which is in short supply in a fuel tank) it's because you have water in your tanks because the bacteria live in the water/fuel interface and eat the fuel and leave you with sludge to clog the fuel delivery system. There are biocides you can use to help control the bacterial contamination because you can't stop condensation, but you can minimize it. I'm fortunate to live in a drier climate where I don't have serious condensation issues.

Opinions are like belly button - everybody has one. This is mine on What creates "bad diesel" fuel.

I totally agree. But I do a few things different.

I'm taking my diesel from the highway truck. All I have in storage are two cherry cans as backup. Those are emptied twice a year.
I'm not using any fuel conditioner, nothing. I run the tractor on very low level comes fall and refill mid to late November. That's where most of the summer fuel should be gone from the tanks.
During New Years night, we hit -40C/F. New Years day I had to start the tractor. No issues, except to have it plugged in for about 4 hours around noon time. I make sure to have enough fuel in the tank to avoid the need to fill up at the coldest condition. Tractor sits outside.
I'm using a fuel pump attached to the drill machine.
What I'm extremely picky about, is to avoid to get any water or snow in the tanks. On snowy days, the fuel nozzles are covered with snow. I religiously clean them before filling. I always use the fuel pump that is the farthest away from the convenience store. That's the least used fuel pump and I'm assuming it has the cleanest filters at the pump.

 

[5030]

Far as I'm concerned all the ULSD diesel is crap and especially bio diesel ULSD.

Before the Gummit stuck it's nose into it, you didn't need any additives to replace anything. Today, lubricity additives abound.

Been down the algae highway before. You don't ever want to go down it. It's an expensive in failed system components and draining and refilling tanks with red stinky slime.

 

[TMBRWLF]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

We had this issue with our service trucks. Last time we got fuel we also filled some 5gl cans. We were pouring it in the forklift and noticed the fuel looked like a filthy molasses mess. Service station paid the bill for new injectors on one of our trucks. After speaking with station owner. They said they had to clean under ground tank and replace their pumps and filters. What a nitemare....

 

[kubota shifty]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

I was told to pour the diesel into the tractor through a sock because there is so much crap in it. I actually haven't tried it but am careful to not run it too low so it doesn't pull from the bottom of the tank. I haven't had a problem except the one time I did that.

 

[Toyboy]

I always filter my fuel through a Mr Funnel. No problems

 

[MagicMM]

Might have been a algae issue.

I would suspect that algae is your problem. I would drain/clean the tank and always use a Biocide

 

[Robert walker]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

One year my tractor ran great and then out of the blue it would die. I finally figured out it had a black goopy gel in the fuel tank. I took the tank off, emptied and cleaned it. The bell was blocking the outlet from the tank. I have a L3400DT. No problems since.

 

[Hunter4282]

What creates "bad diesel" fuel ?​

Fuel age and condensation.

I never use red off-road diesel, which for me would be from a Citgo station.

I pay more for fully taxed highway diesel from the busy Chevron.

I buy only nine gallons are a time. I almost empty the tractor tank before adding fresh diesel. Not a good idea to add fresh fuel to old fuel when the tractor tank is half full.

Fresh fuel is the bottom line.

While I agree with going to a high volume store, offroad (red) vs clear is a ridiculous notion. Both fuels are made equally, however, not keeping your tank full( a recommended process in all heavy equipment operations) increases the condensation in the tank as the equipment cools. Partly because the returned fuel is heated as you run the engine. I had an old steel tank go bad because I left it empty. I would recommend using quality treated fuel. If you are only using 5 gallons a month then keep the can out of the sun/heat/cold and your equipment full.

My local fuel station can go through nearly as much off road as on road fuel. Bad fuel happens. Watch the bio fuel. That will cause its own problems.

 

[puzlrock]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

Sounds like they have a bacterial problem in their tanks. The by product of bacteria in Bio-diesel is water. You need to get an additive to treat your machinery and fuel tanks or the problem will continue.
I use PRI-D that I get at: TheEpicenter.com Emergency Preparedness Food & Survival Supplies
under the "Power" header. it solves most of the problems listed here, read up on it, it is great stuff. Running your tank empty up north in the winter just invites condensation in, bad idea.
I have 55 gallon barrels I treat and they stay fresh and free of bacterial.
Wouldn't hurt to look and it only takes an ounce to treat 15 gallons, lubes your pump and injectors and cleans your system. Much better than anything else out there and not very expensive. I use Power Service to stop jelling and I use #2 diesel in all my equipment all the time and it gets real cold here, runs great.

 

[joea99]

I was told to pour the diesel into the tractor through a sock because there is so much crap in it. I actually haven't tried it but am careful to not run it too low so it doesn't pull from the bottom of the tank. I haven't had a problem except the one time I did that.

I've heard the "bottom of the tank" warning from friends and relatives, but it makes no sense to me.

The fuel pickup is at the bottom of the tank in most any vehicle, so it's always "pulling from the bottom". In any event, water, dirt and other heavier than oil stuff is going to settle at the bottom anyway.

 

[lspat]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

Working in the fuel additive world
For a few years I can comment with some experience. Refiners Will usually have to go through a strict QA procedure to be able to release their product to market(but in the perfect world sometimes things happen), that being said I’m sure it’s not a supplier problem but more of a distribution problem i.e. the fuel station/delivery. If your problem fuel station, is fairly slow at selling its product, the diesel can become “expired” meaning it lacks certain properties that good clean diesel has to offer. Over time stuff settles out of the diesel and it becomes less effective in your engine. The fuel can become almost a rusty red colour, and smell bad on certain occasions(would not recommend smelling diesel )
also I have seen above ground tanks participate water into its fuel through condensation. Also if your area is prone to heavy rains and flooding sometimes inground tanks can get water in the fuel due to leaking gaskets on their filler caps.
If you have a glass jar put some bad diesel in it, and give it a swirl and let it set for a half hour, if you notice some white ish stuff in the bottom that would be water or some other heavy contamination. And if you really want to go the extra mile, cool the diesel down to a cold temperature (colder the better) and see if it becomes cloudy.
Going forward I would definitely go with the station that has been less problematic for you, I got a bad batch of diesel one time in my bulldozer and it took the injection pump out we narrowed if down to bad diesel in the tank.

 

[ovrszd]

I was told to pour the diesel into the tractor through a sock because there is so much crap in it. I actually haven't tried it but am careful to not run it too low so it doesn't pull from the bottom of the tank. I haven't had a problem except the one time I did that.

The fuel pickup in the tank is in a fixed location. It pulls fuel from the same spot regardless of how full the tank is. Water is heavier than fuel so it's always on the bottom, where the pickup is. The benefits of keeping the tank full is less condensation. If the vehicle has an intank pump there's an additional benefit of the fuel cooling the pump better if the tank is full.

I'm not sure I'd want the cotton fuzz from the sock in my fuel tank.

 

[Bearcat81]

I have read all these comments with personal interest. My opinions are: Do Not use bio-diesel (soybeans and diesel grow 'organism' that clog filters peer the advice of my New Holland sales mgr's advice years ago....; I buy 'red' diesel from my Cps (2) which have high turnover because of the ag sales, and, the non-red high turnover from otr truckers. I am a big believer in Howes; Diesel Plus; Lucas; Stanadyne additives/'enhancers'-but, too much non-measured use can cause problems (more is not better). As an aside, I buy some kerosene in a smaller 'can' and add it in periodically (especially winter-5 degrees here this a.m. with a stiff wind chill)--works like viagara and cialis for these old beasts we shed (not straight kero though I was told by our eldest son who worked for C-NH). Happy New Year.

 

[English Rugby Fan]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

Though I run a single tractor Mahindra 1533, it does hard work around our small farm. The gas station 2 miles away frequently cleans the diesel tanks but never Properly cleans all the sediment out hence on a number of occasions my Mahindra would suffer the consequence! Learnt a lesson and used a Murphy USA with high turnover and happily no more problems plus I’m adding Starton Marine HD Fuel additive.

 

[Raul-02]

Not a good idea to add fresh fuel to old fuel when the tractor tank is half full.

Why's that?

 

[LyHale]

One bulk plant here was selling bio diesel and not telling anyone. The buyers had problems and couldn't figure out why. Once the customers figured the plant out, they bought somewhere else and problems went away.

Biodiesel cleans fuel systems more vigorously than petroleum diesel. It is normal for new biodiesel users to have to change a fuel filter or two as their tractors or vehicles are cleaned up.

 

[Dwilson540]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

This may or may not be an answer to your specific problem..... I used to be a sailor (Lost our boat in Katrina) and know that depending on conditions bacteria can grow in diesel fuel. I once was renting a boat in the Florida Keys and had repeated problems with the fuel. Basically the boat sat long enough that there was a large bacteria growth and the fuel filters filtered it out and clogged up. https://conidia.com/diesel-bug/

 

[priberc]

Several years ago I experienced a summer of "frequent" fuel filter changes. On the T1530 NH that I cut several fields with I had to change the filter often. The machine would just not maintain power & speed. After the filter change it would immediately be back to spec.
I was buying my diesel at the same location that year and when I finally decided that my filter issues were caused by the fuel I was using I changed to another source ................. and the issues went away. I've only changed the filter once in the last two years and the symptom is the rpm drop & power loss.
I'm suspicious that something in the fuel "coats" the filter. Anyone else have similar problems ?

Sounds like old....really old fuel. Fuel that was more algae than distilled dino juice. The distributor got "a good deal" on fuel. Be happy your pump wasn't pooched