What Did I Do Wrong?

[oe2x]

I was towing a double axle trailer with a Kubota L35 behind my F350 powerstroke. Approx. GVM - 9,000 lbs.
Everything was fine for the first 200 miles of the trip. I had loaded the tractor so that bucket rested on the front of the trailer and the front of the tractors rear wheels where almost in line with the back axle. The backhoe was up and within a few inches of the rear end of the trailer.

I was cruising along at about 60 mph and did a slight correction to my steering. All of the sudden the trailer started to sway back and forth - left to right. As I let off the gas and started to coast to regain control the swinging became like a drunken sailor. Fortunately it was around 12:30 AM on a four lane highway with no cars nearby. The trailer started to pull the truck and I found myself weaving back and forth across both lanes of the road. It finally stopped when I dropped down to about 20 - 25 mph. I white knuckled it to the grass to calm myself and check the tractor. All the tiedowns were tight and it didn't appear to have shifted.

What I'd like to know is if I had too much or too little tongue weight?

 

[hutch4472]

Thats typically caused by too little tongue weight. Also you probably have heard this but when the "tail waggin the dog" senerio happens you are supposed to apply more power to the drivers to get the trailer to fall back in line with the truck. Of course that is easier said than done AND you eventualy have to SLOW down.....so maybe thats what you were doing by backing off the throttle. Hutch

 

[oe2x]

you are supposed to apply more power to the drivers to get the trailer to fall back in line with the truck. Hutch

I heard about that technique today. It makes sense now... Honestly - in the heat of the moment, I'm not sure I could have the courage to speed up when all the senses tell me to slow down and pull over.

 

[hutch4472]

Yep, its easy to say, just like when driving truck, if you blow a front tire you are supposed to "mash the throttle" to help pull weight off the front end, then slowly back off the throttle.........can be tough to do in a split second.........also was the L35 yours? I have a 2000 L35, I really like it. Hutch

 

[oe2x]

I just bought the L35 yesterday and was bringing it home. It should be a good machine for my purposes. Just glad I didn't litter the highway with her last night.

 

[Joe1]

I would reload it the same way and slowly drive it to a weight station and weigh the entire loaded trailer, then weigh just the tongue weight. Severely uneven tire pressure could also cause a sway, but most likely it's inadequate tongue weight because of the backhoe on the tractor acting as a lever to lift the weight off the tractor front axle and thus lightening the tongue load.

One other thing might be that the trailer is not riding level, with the tongue to high. As the tongue goes up, the weight shifts back away from the tongue and also lightens the load on the front trailer axle and shifts the weight to the rear axle.

You may have to load the tractor backwards with the backhoe and bucket both down and load it a little more forward. With the correct hitch, the F350 should certainly handle the heavy tongue load.

Applying just the trailer brakes may also help to slow the sway and straighten out the truck/trailer.

 

[hutch4472]

SWEEEEEET!!!! CONGRATS!!!! Remarkable machine. One tough little sucker.....and fairly heavy for its appearance......I also tow with a F350, you definetly want to pull the tractor further up on the trailer next time......make the truck squat down a fair bit before you chain down the tractor. Of course mines a gooseneck so that works good for me, if you have a bumper pull then you obviously have to worry about lightening up the front too much also......in which case you may need a stabilizing hitch..........Hutch

 

[oe2x]

Joe,
This is excellent advice. I'll look into it the next time I put her on the trailer.
Thanks.

 

[oe2x]

Here are some picts of the build site. This week we broke ground. The excavator crew move a few thousand yards of dirt to create a driveway. I now have to have a 120' x 12' high retaining wall built to keep the driveway from falling into where the house will be.

 

[hutch4472]

WOW looks like a dream site there. Must be nice to have access to money printers. An old co-worker of mine retired to that same area, he just finished his house and has a nice view of Mt Hood.

 

[oe2x]

WOW looks like a dream site there. Must be nice to have access to money printers. An old co-worker of mine retired to that same area, he just finished his house and has a nice view of Mt Hood.

Hmmm. Is his name Jack and is he married to Nancy?

I've owned the property for a while. Been saving to build a home on it. Finally. Wish I was a better gardener, so I could raise one of those trees you speak of. LOL

 

[hutch4472]

Nope.....Dan married to Sue.......I cant find the road he is off of right now, you'll know if you meet him, he will be the guy that you can only listen to because he never stops talking, great guy anyhow.......

 

[crbr]

This is exactly what I was talking about in the thread about the guy towing the mini-van.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/1154447-post2.html

Then another guy went on to say KAKA...

Too little tongue weight.

One cannot know that feeling and believe it until you experience.

Glad you didn't have a wreck.

Accelerating to regain control is a myth. Been there. Anyone that tells it or believes it hasn't been there.

 

[machmeter62]

This is exactly what I was talking about in the thread about the guy towing the mini-van.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/1154447-post2.html

Then another guy went on to say KAKA...

Too little tongue weight.

One cannot know that feeling and believe it until you experience.

Glad you didn't have a wreck.

Accelerating to regain control is a myth. Been there. Anyone that tells it or believes it hasn't been there.

I been there and disagree; if I didn't accelerate while going down a small grade while the trailer was controlling me---I would have ended up inverted on the freeway because of too little tongue weight!!

 

[browns40]

Wow, glad you are okay!

I had the same thing on an F150 happen with my 3320 with a bushhog on the back, and luck outweighed my stupidity that no one died that day...

As far as acceleration to keep control, it is not a myth--it squats/plants the rear tires like any other acceleration, plus hauls the trailer tongue down with it as it drops... had I not floored it, I might not be writing this...

I did not have an brake controller hooked up at the time--the best way to stop that once it's begun is to activate the trailer brake...

And what went wrong was low tongue weight relative to your load--if that trailer is tongue light with that load, back on so the backhoe is up front, or rest the bucket in front of your front bracket instead of up to it.

I check no less than three times now to be sure I have the front tires on the trailer displaying more load than the rears, and that I have the tongue weight high enough that I can barely budge it... course my gear weighs 2/3 what yours does across the board--your F350 should be rated for a full 1000 pounds at the tongue--be sure you have 900 on there for the 9000 pound load if you have no load levellers.

Glad you are okay--these are cheap lessons everyone gains from sharing!

 

[oe2x]

Please forgive my further ignorance on checking my tongue weight:
If I don't have nearby access to a truck scale, what is the best way to check the load on the tongue?

My towing history is mainly just pulling a 24' -2,500 lb Zodiac boat. It's pretty much a no brainer and I've never experienced what occurred the other night.

 

[Bird]

I guess I'll have to put in my 2 cents worth, since trailering is something I have lots of experience with.

1. A fishtailing trailer is usually the result of too little tongue weight, although a flat, or very low, tire can cause it, as can a sudden cross wind.

2. Letting off the gas suddenly may make it worse, and suddenly hitting the brakes almost ensures a crash.

3. Accelerating might help (I'd even say probably help) for the immediate moment, but no way I'd do that without trailer brakes. Instead, ease up on the accelerator and gradually slow down.

4. And if you have trailer brakes, then you definitely want to apply the trailer brakes while simultaneously accelerating very slightly and you'll pull everything back straight. I once drove over halfway across South Dakota in cross winds keeping one thumb on the trailer brake controller.

5. Any RVer who has pulled a conventional travel trailer has undoubtedly had 18-wheelers pass them, and when they do, it feels as if the back of the towing vehicle/front of the trailer is being sucked toward the 18-wheeler. It can really scare a person new to trailering, even to the point of them hitting the brakes, which is the worst thing they can do. In that scenario, nothing needs to be done at all. The rig will almost immediately straighten itself, although it does not hurt anything to accelerate a bit.

 

[podagrower]

Please forgive my further ignorance on checking my tongue weight:
If I don't have nearby access to a truck scale, what is the best way to check the load on the tongue?

My towing history is mainly just pulling a 24' -2,500 lb Zodiac boat. It's pretty much a no brainer and I've never experienced what occurred the other night.

For my trailer weighing purposes, I've used the scales at my local scrapyard. They are always nice (may have something to do with the scrap I bring them). If that isn't convenient for you, I've seen a way to determine tongue weight using a bathroom scale and a long board for a fulcrum. The idea is to only weigh a percentage of the tongue on the bathroom scale. I don't remember all the details, maybe someone else here does.

 

[Bird]

I've seen a way to determine tongue weight using a bathroom scale and a long board for a fulcrum.

I believe you're thinking of the method shown here.

 

[Rara Avis]

Please forgive my further ignorance on checking my tongue weight:
If I don't have nearby access to a truck scale, what is the best way to check the load on the tongue?

My towing history is mainly just pulling a 24' -2,500 lb Zodiac boat. It's pretty much a no brainer and I've never experienced what occurred the other night.

Gave up on scuba diving Huh????