WHAT DO YOU THINK???

[antlers125]

Try to keep it clean. https://www.yahoo.com/autos/s/gm-ford-others-want-working-own-car-illegal-160000229.html

 

[Toyboy]

Most people won't be concerned about this issue directly, but philosophically you should be. This is about tractors and cars, but since almost everything we buy today except food has electronics in it, this could one day affect everyone. You may not know it, but it probably already technically affects you, or soon will, in some electronic gear you own - like your cell phone.

 

[George2615]

I've been saying this for years. Car and tractor manufacturers have been making it harder and harder for the average car / tractor owner to work on their vehicles without spending thousands of dollars on diagnostic equipment. The days of the backyard mechanic are just about over. As Toyboy mentioned, most people won't be concerned because they don't work on their stuff anyway. Now they want to stop us from doing anything and take it to a dealer for repairs.

Granted that over the years auto industry engines, greater MPG, fewer emissions, and longevity have improved. Just 50, 60, 70 years ago an auto engine usually needed a rebuild at 60-70K miles. Today vehicles go 100K without a tune up and it's not uncommon to see vehicles with 200-300K miles on the original engines that have been taken care of.

I still enjoy owning classic cars, trucks, tractors etc. that I can still turn wrenches on but feel these days will eventually come to an end.

 

[dodge man]

It's an issue for the modern hot Rodger. They often put a "tune" on their vehicle. I've done it to my Challenger, you can get a noticeable improvement. This is also happening in Ag tractors and people turn them up.

The idea of this being illegal is a joke in my opinion.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Not actually owning is a joke! I buy my vehicles cash so I owe no one nothing. This will kill any manufacturers that follow and the ones that don't will thrive.

Chris

 

[antlers125]

Yea, I thought the not owning was a little extreme. I guess our homes will be next, since we pay taxes.

Not actually owning is a joke! I buy my vehicles cash so I owe no one nothing. This will kill any manufacturers that follow and the ones that don't will thrive.

Chris

 

[timswi]

Not actually owning is a joke! I buy my vehicles cash so I owe no one nothing. This will kill any manufacturers that follow and the ones that don't will thrive.

Chris

Paying cash means nothing against a warranty. They could care less. Violate the warranty, you're on your own..

 

[Diamondpilot]

Paying cash means nothing against a warranty. They could care less. Violate the warranty, you're on your own..

I fully understand that but to state that you buying something doesn't necessarily mean you own it is ridiculous. Just using their technology.... What a joke!

Chris

 

[crashz]

Its a joke, but not a funny one. Its a clear display of arrogance and disrespect to the public. I'm simply disgusted.

 

[Scooby074]

You can thank the government lobbyists and the RIAA for this mess. All this to stop "Napster" users from sharing the latest Metallica CD back in the day. How many of the people that were in favor of these laws about people "stealing" music and movies supported the DMCA at the time because "kids" were the ones "stealing" music are now the same ones complaining about this legislation? Its only going to get worse too, as companies try to lock down their "software" even more as software finds its way into more and more benign items. Reap what you sow! The DMCA should be repealed, but never will with old, uneducated, government officials in the back pocket of big business.

 

[timswi]

I fully understand that but to state that you buying something doesn't necessarily mean you own it is ridiculous. Just using their technology.... What a joke!

Chris

I agree..That's why I don't do any performance related stuff until the warranty is up...Many newspapers around here are finding these rules ridiculous and are editorializing about it.

 

[davesl708]

This is why my next new vehicle will be an old car or truck. I will spend what it takes to get it back to new condition. It would last me the rest of my lifetime.
I really miss my old Bonneville. The system was so simple and clean. Nothing to fail. I got 29mpg on the highway and a great ride.
The 3.8Ltr engine ran 166000 miles without any issues when I traded it for an 03 Trailblazer.

 

[Grateful11]

"We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership"

We Can't Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership | WIRED

 

[dodge man]

I can understand if someone takes a tractor, car, truck etc and modifies it to increase the performance and then denying warranty. Its an entire different thing to make it illegal. What they are after is the aftermarket companies that are in the business of making chips, tuners etc. Chrysler made a big change in the computers on their cars and 2011. A lot of people were ticked off because the tuners had trouble for a couple of years "cracking the codes" for these new computers. Of course its was just a matter of time before they broke the codes and made tuners available. I think this is the kind of thing they are trying to put a stop to.

 

[Scooby074]

Tuners are one thing..

But also in their sights is just simple code reading and/or 2 way data.

Manufacturers have been using the DMCA to stifle a lot of innovation over the last several years in many fields, now the tractor and vehicle manufacturers have gotten into the game.

The EFF has a good entry page on DRM and the DMCA. https://www.eff.org/issues/drm

"
DRM

Digital Rights Management (DRM) technologies attempt to control what you can and can't do with the media and hardware you've purchased.

Bought an ebook from Amazon but can't read it on your ebook reader of choice? That's DRM.
Bought a video game but can't play it today because the manufacturer's "authentication servers" are offline? That's DRM.
Bought a smartphone but can't use the applications or the service provider you want on it? That's DRM.
Bought a DVD or Blu-Ray but can't copy the video onto your portable media player? That's DRM.

Corporations claim that DRM is necessary to fight copyright infringement online and keep consumers safe from viruses. But there's no evidence that DRM helps fight either of those. Instead DRM helps big business stifle innovation and competition by making it easy to quash "unauthorized" uses of media and technology.

DRM has proliferated thanks to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 (DMCA), which sought to outlaw any attempt to bypass DRM."

 

[Scott65]

I can understand if someone takes a tractor, car, truck etc and modifies it to increase the performance and then denying warranty. Its an entire different thing to make it illegal. What they are after is the aftermarket companies that are in the business of making chips, tuners etc. Chrysler made a big change in the computers on their cars and 2011. A lot of people were ticked off because the tuners had trouble for a couple of years "cracking the codes" for these new computers. Of course its was just a matter of time before they broke the codes and made tuners available. I think this is the kind of thing they are trying to put a stop to.

Many auto makers (if not all) have done this every year or few years for a long time. Dodge diesels, and maybe gasolines, through most of the 04+ models, they changed enough with each calibration update that the tunes had to be updated to work. So every couple of months all of the tuners on the shelves became obsolete, requiring an immediate update upon purchase. And if you bought one right after dodge released a new calibration, you had a shiny new paperweight for a month or two until the aftermarket company could catch up.

Gm went so far on the duramax as to completely redesign the computer with each engine revision. So not only did they have to crack new software code, but had to figure out how to talk to it to begin with.

Allot of this, at least in the diesel industry, came as a result of deleting the emissions systems. And for sake of warranty, to prevent the horsepower increase. The 6.4 power stroke, according to advertised numbers, with dpf delete and tuning will allow you to double the factory horsepower. Obviously as a result, lots of things break.

I agree that they should safeguard their products while under warranty. But this is already more or less taken care of. Sure there are incidences where people have snuck something past them under warranty, but such is the case with any industry. There's always some bad apples.

But to make it illegal after warranty is up is ridiculous to me. It doesn't belong to them any more. They have been paid for their product. When I buy a truck, I don't sign a rental agreement. To compare it to the music piracy debacle: No one is giving away cloned copies of car pcm's, offering it for download. All people are doing is modifying it to their personal taste. It would be like me buying a music cd and drawing on it with a sharpie. Who cares, it's mine, I paid for it

 

[crashz]

To piggyback what Scott was saying, the bothersome part is that GM has the audacity to say that vehicle owners do not own their vehicles. We are borrowing the software. Pretty arrogant when we are looking at $60K trucks.

The good thing is that all of those old suits in the auto industry management and government barely have any concept of what their are legislating. So the next generation of hot rodder / hacker will be a step ahead of all of these guys.

 

[tessiers]

I've been saying this for a long time, but I have a 77' F-350, to replace it would cost $30k. I could completely rebuild that old truck several times for that kind of money. The computers are going to be our downfall. A friend of mine has a 2012 80 hp JD tractor, it has broken down several times, a simple electronic sensor in the transmission renders it useless, all the manufacturers/dealers have to do is stop servicing the computers and you have $700 worth of scrap. I say its planned obsolescence. They are designing and building 5 to 10 year tractors, cars and basically all products. After all that stuff is melted down in China, I'll still be making hay with my 1967 JD 3020 and Hauling it home with my 1977 F-350, and I own them both, with no-one I'm aware of, contesting that.

 

[Fiziksgeek]

I'm just trying think of why car manufacturers would want to support this. They are businesses, and with rare exception, it all comes down to money. They either wan to reduce costs or sell more stuff/services. So I can immediately think of 3 things:

1. They are spending lot of money fighting warranty or liability claims where they believe modification or work by non-certified technicians caused the problem.

2. They see the aftermarket as a market to get into. Having a robust aftermarket is not a business problem, unless you want to sell that stuff yourself.

3. Service is an important part of the business. By denying anyone else the ability to do service, they make more money.