What does tractors and lawn mowers and other lawn power tools have in common?

[kthompson]

I have been looking at different brands of lawn power tools such as pole saw and hedge trimmer. Have looked at Stihl, Husky, Red Max and one or two other brands in person and more on line. Interesting how some seem to hold they only have professional grade products. Think there was at least two who held that position one being Red Max and then in their brochure they have Home Owner grade riding mowers. O well so much for professional grade only products. Know Stihl is help up at very fine professional grade products but they are very honest they have both professional and Homeowner grade tools. Then there are brands that seem to be offering only homeowner grade brands, lest just say to me most sold at big box stores fall into that class as least to me.

Found it interesting how much when you are comparing the true Pro Grade power heads or hedge trimmer or such from brand to brand the specs vary very little.When you compared the Homeowner grade they varied little from brand to brand in specs.

That got me to thinking on a topic that is often argued here and yes I know there will be those who will not agree with me but think on it honestly and open minded if you will. There are true Pro Grade tractors and there are Home Owner Grade tractors. When you compare specs across the Pro Grade tractors they are very much alike. Same with the Home Owner grade tractors. As with lawn equipment Pro and HO grades have most if not all options and offer about same features and hp. True Pro grade in lawn equipment can offer little higher HP.

Sticking with string trimmer for this over the years first owned a Weed Eater brand. They were the first brand I ever knew of and was it a true home owner grade or less in capacity. Then replaced it with a Green Machine with handle bars and it was a true Pro trimmer with all the capacity and quality the Weed Eater did not have. No idea the brand that replaced the Green Machine with but since then have Roybi and Stihl which both are Home Owner grade. The Roybi has the options of pole saw and edger and such. However they neither have the torque you would expect a Pro model would have. But either one can do the same job as a Pro model just not as easy or the same load as long.

Think you will realize tractors today are much like this. Some brands have both, while other brands may only offer the Pro or Homeowner version. I realize some will totally disagree with me and that is fine but it is easy to realize all tractors are not of the same grade. That does not mean the Home Owner grade is junk or trash, it just is not made for hour after hour load the Pro Grade is made to handle or maybe the shock loads or such. As with lawn equipment we none expect the Homeowner grade to equal the Pro grade and we certainly do not expect it to cost as much. Yet when people compare tractors they seem to miss all are not the same. HP or any one spec is not the way to truly compare. It has been said here how weight is so important in such as tillage and pulling. If you will just look back a few years the major tillage tractors went for weight maybe more so than HP. Don't think speed was even considered for any tractor was as fast or faster than a team of horses or mules.

 

[nards444]

I have been looking at different brands of lawn power tools such as pole saw and hedge trimmer. Have looked at Stihl, Husky, Red Max and one or two other brands in person and more on line. Interesting how some seem to hold they only have professional grade products. Think there was at least two who held that position one being Red Max and then in their brochure they have Home Owner grade riding mowers. O well so much for professional grade only products. Know Stihl is help up at very fine professional grade products but they are very honest they have both professional and Homeowner grade tools. Then there are brands that seem to be offering only homeowner grade brands, lest just say to me most sold at big box stores fall into that class as least to me.

Found it interesting how much when you are comparing the true Pro Grade power heads or hedge trimmer or such from brand to brand the specs vary very little.When you compared the Homeowner grade they varied little from brand to brand in specs.

That got me to thinking on a topic that is often argued here and yes I know there will be those who will not agree with me but think on it honestly and open minded if you will. There are true Pro Grade tractors and there are Home Owner Grade tractors. When you compare specs across the Pro Grade tractors they are very much alike. Same with the Home Owner grade tractors. As with lawn equipment Pro and HO grades have most if not all options and offer about same features and hp. True Pro grade in lawn equipment can offer little higher HP.

Sticking with string trimmer for this over the years first owned a Weed Eater brand. They were the first brand I ever knew of and was it a true home owner grade or less in capacity. Then replaced it with a Green Machine with handle bars and it was a true Pro trimmer with all the capacity and quality the Weed Eater did not have. No idea the brand that replaced the Green Machine with but since then have Roybi and Stihl which both are Home Owner grade. The Roybi has the options of pole saw and edger and such. However they neither have the torque you would expect a Pro model would have. But either one can do the same job as a Pro model just not as easy or the same load as long.

Think you will realize tractors today are much like this. Some brands have both, while other brands may only offer the Pro or Homeowner version. I realize some will totally disagree with me and that is fine but it is easy to realize all tractors are not of the same grade. That does not mean the Home Owner grade is junk or trash, it just is not made for hour after hour load the Pro Grade is made to handle or maybe the shock loads or such. As with lawn equipment we none expect the Homeowner grade to equal the Pro grade and we certainly do not expect it to cost as much. Yet when people compare tractors they seem to miss all are not the same. HP or any one spec is not the way to truly compare. It has been said here how weight is so important in such as tillage and pulling. If you will just look back a few years the major tillage tractors went for weight maybe more so than HP. Don't think speed was even considered for any tractor was as fast or faster than a team of horses or mules.

Very true, a lot of this is in the eye of the beholder. But the lines do blend between home use and professional use. Some units nothing seems different to the naked eye until you know the specs or what you are looking at, at that point some pro use stuff is better made. On other things the pro or commercial sticker will be slapped on something and there will be virtually no difference at all except in price.

I think the bigger point here is use. If I am the typical home owner that maintains a typical lawn/property and I am looking at tool X and comparing brand Y and Z, Y being home use and Z being pro use. I may never benefit from brand Z's specs of 1mm thicker steel or larger engine etc, thus not worth the price and really in my application brand Z really isnt a better machine for me. In reality im paying for something I never use and can just say I have brand Z. Now on the flip side the home owner that has 100 acres may see more value in the long run from brand Z and might be a much better machine.

I have bought home use or off brand stuff and been severely disappointed but at other times have been very happy and the same is true with name brand commercial stuff. Three years ago I was in the market for a new snow blower, went down to home depot and bought a $900 ariens, used for a month didnt like returned it for a full refund. Then went out and bought a $2800 simplicity, been using that for 2-3 years and funny thing is, its no better than the $900 ariens, and ariens for 150 bucks was covered for 5 years for all fixes or give me a new machine. So it all depends. Maybe that simplicity would last me 30 years problem free, but I also could have bought 3 ariens blowers in that time frame and would have broke even on cost all the while doing the same work. pro stuff isnt always what its cracked up to be and it all depends on what you are doing with it.

 

[kthompson]

Think your comments are right on.

One thing I realized years ago, you could have a car you think is about to fall apart. Sell it to someone who is so happy to get it and you can tell they are a "fan" of it. It will give them great service often for years and also learned if you don't like it, you will never be pleased with it.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I sold my Moms Dodge 600 to a customer, whos wife drove it to work (SEARS) daily for years. My Mom was convinced it was on its last legs!

Tractors, quality, capability and durability is all about money. But throw into that marketing, low rate, long term financing and "keeping up with the Jones trends" like ZTs and Utility Vehicles, and the waters get muddy really quick.

 

[SmallChange]

I've wondered about what seem to be a "light series" and a "heavy series" of CUTs. I recently carefully researched the product lines of Kubota and New Holland (and also John Deere to a lesser extent until I veered away from them). I found a theme:

There will be a "light series" like the Kubota B Series or the New Holland Boomer series. These have a higher horsepower per weight ratio, meaning a lower weight per horsepower ratio. They have a smaller wheelbase, smaller wheels, lower max forces on the hydraulics, and more elaborate controls.

There will also be a "heavy series" like the Kubota L series or the New Holland Workmaster series. They are the opposite in each of those distinctions.

Finally, there will be at least one "subcompact" that is even smaller.

I think one way of looking at it might be this home versus pro distinction. But then another might be that one series is intended for heavy ground engagement work, and the other is intended for low force but power intensive work like snow blowing.

What I found weirdest about this whole situation is how long I had to stare at the tractors and the brochures before understanding that I'm looking at two different series that are distinguished this way. The advertisements all seem to say "you want to buy this tractor" about BOTH series and don't really aim you down one path or the other even if you are clear where you want to be.

I bought a NH Workmaster, by the way.

 

[prof fate]

it's NOT about the HP. Sorry.

I have a 21hp $1500 lawn mowing tractor...had a Kubota L175 - 17hp. HUGE difference in what they were made of, how well, how long they'll last - even thought the Home Depot tractor has more HP. there is NO COMPARISON.

Pro tools are designed to be used 8 hours a day 5 days a week for YEARS, often by employees who won't treat it quite the same as you the owner might treat something.

Time is money - and pro can't have down time and the job needs done quickly - so the tools are designed to work that way.

And they cost quite a bit more.

A homeowner won't use their stuff nearly as much, as hard, or likely maintain it as well.

An example is my 2 acres of yard..way above national average size I'd imagine, as homeowner equip is designed for. I'll put 50 hours a year, if that, on the equipment. Most people put 20-25 a year - less than a WEEKS USE for a pro.

500 hours on my mower is a DECADE. For a pro that's a couple of months.

I've noticed the differences on hand tools and trucks too - my F350 is WAY heavier all around than my silverado every was - thicker frame, bigger wheels and bearing, much bigger breaks, tie rod ends, transmission, etc.

************

You have to look at the economics of it. My main mower is a $3300 toro zero turn. Should last me 15 years, maybe longer. My snapper was $3800 and lasted 13 years. The cheapie ariens I bought used for $500 (new 1500 at home despot) I don't expect to last 10 years...but even at 5 years DOLLAR FOR DOLLAR should be good. Most of my mowing will now (at the farm) be done with a 20 year old Landpride finish mower..they are NOT cheap new - BUT they are NOT the stamped steel disposable stuff like home depot sells. Hence ti's 20 years old and works like a new one.

My bush hog was sold new in 1987 for $2300...still not cheap today! Still works like a new one 32 years later.

 

[mcfarmall]

To me, it boils down to construction. Light duty tractors are made with light duty materials, for example, die cast aluminum rear axle housings, lots of plastic hoods and fenders, and to a lesser extent stamped sheet metal structural components (JD 3038e, Craftsman DLT2000).

Heavy duty tractors are made with cast iron rear axle housings, planetary gear boxes, stamped steel hood, fenders, and floor pan, and fabricated steel structural members. Anyone who has been around industrial or mobile machinery their whole life can spot the differences between cheap, light duty construction and more costly, heavy duty construction.

Do the pins simply go through a hole in the sheet metal or do they have a bronze bushing or bearing to ride on? Does the hood flop in the breeze when it's open or is it more solid/rigid? Does the floor pan bow and flex when you mount the tractor? Look closely and pay attention to detail and you will see what I mean.

 

[jjp8182]

....it all depends on what you are doing with it.

^^^^ This makes all the difference.

What it was designed for vs. what it's being used in addition to how it's being used and maintained make all the difference.

Granted most companies don't seem to provide clear information on what their design considerations/constraints were for that item.... though I suspect even if they did I'm not sure how many consumers would take the time to understand the nuances.

Thus we end up with quick & easy marketing-driven terms like "Homeowner grade", "commercial grade", "pro grade", etc that may (or may not) be driven by an attempt to convey some of the designer's/engineer's intent for and limits on the item.



I'll step off my engineer's soapbox now -- before I start ranting about engineers that don't take the time to learn about how/where the product they're designing will be used/maintained.