What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open?

   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #41  
I agree it's good practice to idle it down, but I don't think there's a need to beat the OP up. If he just tells his guys "don't do it" it tends to go in one ear and out the other. If he can say " don't do it because x, y, and z" then there is a chance they might realize that they are doing it wrong.

Construction equipment: if some of you guys saw what this stuff goes through, I think you either would be dumb founded, or stop babying you stuff some. Watch a guy running at WAO throwing the shuttle back and forward, creek water in an old 5 gal bucket in radiator, start and idle for hours on end without moving, 1000-2000 hours before that first fluid-filter change.

The age old argument in construction is where to idle or shut down when not in use. I know companies that basically go start anything they will use before lunch at 7am, sometimes leaving it idle for hours. I also know some that want it shut down if you get off for more than to pee on the tire; there argument is starters are cheap compared to diesel. I also have seen some Cat-950 loaders with 14,000 and 16,000 hours with just basic services and some wear parts. Loaders, rollers, haul trucks, and broom tractors have it rough because they are normally run by just laborers, graders/dozers/track hoes normally run by foreman, who generally care more.
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #42  
I would agree that it seems odd that folks would shut down from high RPM but for years I have cringed every time I shut down my troy bilt generator. The engine has no throttle setting, it's on or off. So when finished using it we have to listen to it seemingly take forever to stop rotating after flipping the kill switch. Is this OK because it's not a pressure lubricated engine?
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open?
  • Thread Starter
#43  
Is this your equipment, your family's? Who are the offenders, employees or other family members? You?

Not me, and not something I have ever done, hence why I am asking this question here so that I can explain why not to do so as I always just assumed never do it.

Is it a combination PTO speed/ground speed issue? If you have a 1000rpm pto speed you might find another travel gear that would work at lower eng rpm.
larry

We use this transplanter (Water Wheel Transplanter Farming Equipment :: Rain-Flo Model 1600). It is only a ground speed issue, as people sit on the back to transplant seedlings from trays into the ground.
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #44  
... so why not idle down in the next higher gear?
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #45  
I've got a neighbor that never uses the throttle at all on his JD 475 mower ( 25 hp gas ). He shuts it down at full throttle, he starts it up at full throttle, even after sitting several months over winter. I don't understand it.
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #46  
cold starting an engine, car, truck, tractor what ever... more so in winter. ya just don't hope into a vehicle/tractor and tear rear all the way off the get go. ya let it warm up, both the metals that make up the engine and the oil. and allow the oil to coat everything.

pulling a heavy trailer (loaded down trailer) with pickup truck, to using a tractor under full load, to riding lawn mower, to a chain saw / weed eater. if you just got done using them under full load. don't just turn them off quickly. put them in idle and let them set for a couple minutes. before turning them off.

i DO NOT encourage anyone to do this. run tractor at full load high RPMs and get it working hard. for 10 to 15 minutes. take a note at the temp gauge, shut off tractor, wait about a minute, then turn tractor back on, you should see temp gauge at a much higher temp, if thermostat is bad, you might be red lining the temp gauge.

what happens if your temp gauge red lines? you can destroy the engine rather quickly. it takes time at low idle so the radiator, radiator pump, coolant, radiator fan to expel the excess internal heat in an engine. for 2 stroke chain saw or weed eater engines, some extra heat is expelled via fan blades that are most likely under the "pull rope to start it"
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #47  
I would agree that it seems odd that folks would shut down from high RPM but for years I have cringed every time I shut down my troy bilt generator. The engine has no throttle setting, it's on or off. So when finished using it we have to listen to it seemingly take forever to stop rotating after flipping the kill switch. Is this OK because it's not a pressure lubricated engine?

If it's not pressure lubricated, then it's splash lubricated....so while the crankshaft is spinning, oil is being distributed.

We have a of diesel gensets in the rental fleet, from 25KW up to 225KW, and all of the newer ones have controllers from companies like Deep Sea. The genset manufacturers have these controllers configured in a variety of ways to shut the machines down in the event of low oil pressure, high temperature, low or high voltage output or frequency, etc. One other thing they often program into the controller to shut the gensets down, is a service-minder. If it's programmed to shut the unit down at, say 250 hours to let the operator know it's due for service....then it does so. They just shut off. They can be immediately re-started, (which is what the operators always do), and then they run for another 10 hours or so....and shut down again.

After doing this at least a couple of times, the customer calls and we either tell them how to reset the service timer, or we go out and do it ourselves.

Total "damage" thus far due to the shutdowns during operation? Nothing.

Total "damage" done thus far due to a customer renting too much machine for their job and not working it anywhere near as hard as it should be working? Well, that's another story altogether.

Not "advocating" full-throttle shutdowns, but I will take 'em over wet-stacking.
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #48  
I let all my engines idle down before shutting them down. Except for the Kohler motors on the Walker mower and Scag mower. If those are shut down at low idle after use, they will backfire every time. They need to be turned off at wot.
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #49  
OK mayube this question is on the opposite end.
I set my tractors idle a tad lower than it came from the factory.(20 years ago).
Anyways when I first start it. I can see the oil light of from a few MICRO seconds. Also the idle is low so the alt light is on until I kick it up some.
Not worried about the alt and charging but was wondering if there was ''ANY'' engine lube when i start it and the light just doesnt see enough pressure to go out?
Im assuming the light is all about pressure and that the light is on for thta fraction because the pressure didnt build fast enough.
 
   / What happens if you regularly shutdown a diesel engine with the throttle wide open? #50  
The damage will occur from the full speed starts that follow the full speed shutdown. Until oil pressure has time to build, the fewer revolutions the better.

Diesel generator sets usually start and stop at full speed (ours all do), but they also have pre-heat and pre-lube pumps so they are warm and have oil pressure during the start. Not unusual to see them with over 10 thousand running hours between major overhauls, so under the right conditions it does no real harm.

However, starting a tractor or skid steer that way is pure lazy, ignorance, or disregard for someone else's machinery.

Our neighbor starts her lawn tractor that way, I just say "enjoy it while it lasts.."
This is a problem that arises from HST transmission use... you run it at full speed, so why not just turn the key off? That's the thinking, and as a diesel mechanic with thirty years experience, I can tell you it's Flawed!

Sean
 

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