What to get for major earthmoving

[jim_wilson]

Sounds like you are in a similar situation to what I faced last year when I went looking for the what options I had to get a 125ft driveway dug out and get a garage foundation hole dug. Although my problem is on a much smaller scale than yours I think the principal is the same. Like you I had limited financial resources and/or income to support the project. For anything like this you also have to think of the actual value of the accomplished job - is that $120,000 of driveway going to add $120,000 to the value of the finished property? - I am somewhat familiar with property values in Milford NH and I think that amount of $$ would not be regained easily if you had to sell the property.
To figure a job like this out I think you are going to have to break it down into it's parts to try and figure out the best way to accomplish each one - and I think the biggest potential fly in the ointment is the high potential that you will hit either bedrock or a rock that is too large to move with anything other than a big tracked excavator. It also helps to put the whole thing in perspective - after all in the old days before engines and earth moving equipment came along this sort of stuff got done with backbreaking labor, horses, and dynamite. It all really boils down to how long you have to get the job done - if you are willing to set the idea in your mind that you are going to take the next 3 years to do the job yourself then a smaller piece of equipment may well accomplish it for you.
I think the biggest time consumer on this project will be not the digging but the moving of what you dig out - if you could sit at the hoe controls of an L39 and L48 and dig all day and the spoils could get dropped into a magical hole and disappear then the job would be much easier - if you go the route of buying a TLB you should also think of a dump trailer you can haul behind the tractor or used dump truck or something that can do the actual moving of the spoils for you - moving it in the bucket is inefficient and could easily consume 75% of your actual work time. Having two pieces of equipment means you could get two people working at the same time also.
I heard all the same arguments about getting larger pieces of equipment , paying contractors blah blah when I asked these same type of questions about my projects - in the end I bought a BX23 and spent a good portion of the last year in the seat of the tractor moving earth - I am approaching 300 hours so far and the tractor is still going strong. To answer your question about how an L39 or L48 sized TLB would hold up you can look at Ebay - commercial equipment usually gets put on the market around 2500 hours or so - I would expect the useful life of a TLB that was taken care of would be up in the 3500 - 4000 hour range. Rent a piece of similar sized equipment for a weekend and start digging and see how much work you get done and you will have a better idea of how long this will really take you and you will be able to estimate better if that 3 years is going to be enough.

You can do anything yourself - it just depends how much time you have to dedicate to it and how much you are willing to put into it.

 

[Egon]

It would sure be nice to see a picture of the proposed road area. Could make a difference on equipment suggestions and how to aproach the job.

Egon

 

[JimMorrissey]

I agree with Mike. A relatively small TLB (L39 or JD110) is out of the question for such a project. You'll need to get your hands on a big excavator, the bigger the better. I'm thinking about something in the 30,000 lb class minimum (Komatsu PC 150 or 120) or better yet, something in the 50,000 lb class (Kobelco SK-200). --Should run you about $1800 a week without delivery charges for 50,000 lbs. As others have said, you can get a lot of work done with a 50,000 lb excavator in a relatively short period of time. They'll move the big rocks too.

You are going to need to be extremely careful on the slopes. No screwing around pushing the limits just to see if you can go another foot or two, or grab one more scoop; not worth your life. Seatbelt at all times. The terrain sounds frightening to me.

Be careful cutting trees on slopes like that too. Lots of chainsaw accidents happen on slopes...a majority of them. You'll need a good set of chaps for your legs and toe protection from a saw. Don't know how much experience you have with a chain saw, but a nasty slope is no place to learn. Do a Google search on chain saw accidents and read up a bit. Learn some cuts and proper felling techniques before you head out. Any of that pine worth milling? You should contact your local county forester before you cut if they look like questionably good logs.

So......I'd say, rent a big one (not any harder to operate, just a bit more intimidating when it arrives) and see how far you get in three days. That will give you a good guess on how long this will take and limit your risk. Rent it for one week and see how it goes. -Remember, just because you have it in your position for a week, doesn't mean you can run the machine from sun up to sun down for five days. A "day" is usually 8 hours. If you can only get four days, then you can use it for four 10 hour days (need to check with rental company).

Hauling the spoil is something to consider. You'll likey need to make a good game plan prior to any digging. Rental yards in my area don't rent dump trucks, because people overload them and are unfamiliar with braking distances.

I'm building a 1000' foot road now with an L39, but it is nothing like what you are talking about. You should really think about a machine like that for finish work. You're going to need something similar once the big guns are haulded off for the final time.

Now is a good time to start keeping track of all your hours and money spent on the project. Keep a diary if you can manage the time every other night. If nothing else, you'll enjoy reading it ten years down the road. This is going to be one big project!

One other thing....do you have a four wheeler or jeep to haul fuel? Fuel management is a concern. A larger class machine is not filled easily with 5 gallon jugs.

 

[tlbuser]

Some of the replies crack me up. 13,000 yds. / 3 yrs./ 240 average weekend days = 18 yards /day on average. Less than two truck loads. On your $45K budget, you could find a decent used JD450 (or similar size)with a 4n1 and maybe even a backhoe attachment. Add in a used tandem axle dump. You and your wife should now have a workable combination to keep you both occupied. Hire a blaster or breaker if needed. Sell the bigger toys when your finished and then buy a more manageable size tractor for your maintenance stuff. Might be a decent 555 machine here 555

 

[tlbuser]

Or try looking at some of the ones on machinerytrader.com like this one. 455

 

[Highbeam]

In my area the contractors preload the sites before building. That is, they haul in some 20,000 yards of fill and pile it up to squish the settlement out of the ground. When they remove the preload they do it with a big excavator and as many dumptruck/trailer combinations as they can keep busy. Amazingly quick. The excavator isn't a mongo one but a biggy.

When building the preload pads they use the dozer, scraper, and roller. All of the dirt being supplied by the dump trucks filled from the preload across the street. Some of the dirt has seen several sites.

My advice: Have a surveyor flag the cut area and log/grub the entire area where you will be cutting or filling. Have the surveyor back to stake out the cuts and fills. Then bring out a rental excavator to run on a long term contract. When you're ready to start moving the dirt hire a trucking outfit with trucks to be filled by you and dumped somewhere that you want fill. They will only run the trucks every other weekend or so since you will use the excavator to smooth their fill piles and to predig some areas carefully.

Remember that to cut a 20 foot wide driveway 25' down into a canyon with a 2:1 slope is 120' wide at the top. Quite a swath through the woods.

Something special about 12%? Maybe steepen it up for a section to avoid a large volume of earthwork.

We must have pictures.

 

[paccorti]

NHDave,

You need to host a TBN party! Invite every TBN'er from a 60 mile radius and start digging. Imagine your project with 30-40 machines crawling around on it. It would be like a big anthill. Heck if you were nearby I'd take some time off to help; I like digging with the loader.

Peter

 

[SCOOBY14B]

Is any of the dirt being removed going to fill in at the bottom or is it just going to "stockpiled"? If you are not going to use the dirt being removed...SELL IT!! Big money in good fill dirt.

If you ARE using it to fill, don't forget that the dirt needs to be compacted or you'll face problems down the road.

That's a pretty big job. I've run all level's of equipment: Bobcat/ NH skidsteers on up to CAT 963 trackloader, 330 excavator, 621 PAN, 815 packer, D5,D6,D8 dozers...you name it. You need either a pan and an 815/ compactor or a good sized trackhoe/excavator and a few trucks. But like I said, if you don't need the dirt, contract the dumptrucks and sell the dirt and recoup some of the cost.

 

[JimMorrissey]

High,

I'm not sure I understanding the "preload" concept. Why would they bring in 20,000 yards of fill to build up the development, then take it out again? Maybe they use it to bring the foundation pads up....then clear out in between each cellar hole?

 

[Highbeam]

They preload or surcharge the ground with the big ol' pile of dirt. The point is to cause the earth to compress under a load so that when they remove that load and place a building, the building pad doesn't settle anymore. You will see several feet of settlement during the process. Sometimes the settlement will vary across the site which would have destroyed the building.

If you just took a farm field, and stuck a big heavy concrete warehouse on top of it, the soft fluffy soils would compress in unpredictable ways and the building would crack up.

Before they start filling for the preload, they install several a flat plates with poles sticking up. The elevation of the top of the pole is measured and then the dirt is piled up. The settlement of the plate is monitored. It starts out fast and then slows down as the subgrade is compressed. When the settling is mostly done, they strip the preload and build. If they waited long enough after removing the preload, the subgrade would expand like a sponge.

It's pretty cool. All large buildings, even multifamily housing, utilize the preloads here in the valley near the Puget Sound.