What type of tractor to get??

jwk · Feb 11, 2005

I'm totally new to tractors. I just bought 11 acres and need a tractor. Any help I can get would be greatly appreciated.

What I need it for:
- 11 acres, flat, heavily wooded, can get pretty soggy
- make a driveway -- grade it, push around gravel, etc.
- clear out brush, maybe small trees?
- lawn grading, eventually mowing (once I build)
- once I get built, I'm sure I'll need it for general maintenance

I don't want to spend too much, a used tractor would be OK I think. I'd like to stay under $10K if possible, but I don't know if it is, for what I want.

How much tractor do I need? what implements? Thanks in advance for any comments!!

NIXON · Feb 11, 2005

JWK . Welcome to TBN ! Your first post sounds a bit like mine /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Not to sound discouraging,but 10k for a decent tractor for your needs is a bit optimistic . You are most likely needing a tractor in the 20-30 Hp range with an FEL and 4wd. Implements like a brush hog ,and rearblade/boxblade push up the price as well . That pushes up the cost to around 15-25 K . , Depending on the makes and models You choose . Sorry if I caused You some "sticker shock ". Good luck shopping . And hopefullyYou'll have to spend less than I stated .;
John

Bellville · Feb 11, 2005

JWK, welcome, we have something in common, we both have 11 acres in Texas, that are heavilyl wooded, and both have similar to do lists.

After much reading here, and much price comparision I purchased a JD 790 MFWD, with loader, box blade, post hole digger and a LX 5 cutter. Since then I have added a harrow rake and a set of forks for the loader.

The tractor has done everything I have asked of it, (I have had it for a little more than a year now) and has allowed me to make incredible progess on my property.

I looked at used tractors but with the financing deals available on new, it just wasn't that much more to get a new one.

I am sure you will get many suggestions, as there are many great tractors in the hp range you will need. Take your time and drive them all, look for a good dealer, (not just a good deal) and before you know, you will know what you want.

Best of luck to you.

jwk · Feb 12, 2005

Thanks for the responses! After doing a lot of reading other posts, I came to a similar conclusion--about 25 HP, 4WD. I like the idea of having a FEL, seems handy, but how necessary is it for what I want to do? It's pretty expensive.

I get the impression that tractors in general don't depreciate much. A used one isn't much cheaper than a new one. Is this true? What is a rule of thumb for % depreciation vs. time?

billbill1 · Feb 12, 2005

By all means get a loader, you'll never regret having one and you won't believe how much you'll use it. The greatest hydraulic wheelbarrow ever invented. It's much cheaper to get one with the tractor than to add on later and would be a selling point down the road as well. IMO.

RickO · Feb 12, 2005

I don't know about a rule of thumb, but I do know you can find a good used tractor for $10K. For various reasons people unload compact tractors from time to time and offer some really good buys. You don't have to pay taxes on the used which saves about $800-$1200 in addition to the depreciation.

Just be patient and check around. I agree you'll want a FEL if you have all that woods. But you don't have to get it right now. If you find a good buy on a used tractor that will take a FEL you can get it later. That is what I did. I have a FEL in the future plans. You don't have to buy all your attachements at one time.

AndyMA · Feb 12, 2005

( Thanks for the responses! After doing a lot of reading other posts, I came to a similar conclusion--about 25 HP, 4WD. I like the idea of having a FEL, seems handy, but how necessary is it for what I want to do? It's pretty expensive.

I get the impression that tractors in general don't depreciate much. A used one isn't much cheaper than a new one. Is this true? What is a rule of thumb for % depreciation vs. time?
)

Unless just pulling wagons, mowing or tilling, a tractor without a loader is useless in my opinion. At my dealer better than 90% of all tractors are delvered with loaders. Also I would recomment a 30hp class machine if you can. The difference in frame sizes makes the larger (still small) tractor much more useful.

Andy

sneaky_pete · Feb 12, 2005

( Thanks for the responses! After doing a lot of reading other posts, I came to a similar conclusion--about 25 HP, 4WD.)

For as much as it rains down there, I would definitely get 4WD if I were you. 25 HP would be adequate in my opinion for your acreage.

( I like the idea of having a FEL, seems handy, but how necessary is it for what I want to do? It's pretty expensive.)

Like my mom says, you don't HAVE to do anything, except die and pay taxes...

Few things are really necessary, but like everyone else I'll say get the FEL, you won't regret it. I had the same dilemma when I bought mine and I'm sure glad my dealer talked me into it. You'll be amazed at how handy it is to have.

( I get the impression that tractors in general don't depreciate much. A used one isn't much cheaper than a new one. Is this true? What is a rule of thumb for % depreciation vs. time?)

I suspect depreciation varies with color and region.

I'll admit that when I was shopping, I was not color blind - right or wrong, I went shopping for Kubota only because of previous experience with a garden tractor of theirs, but also because there are two good dealers within 30 miles of my place. I looked for a used tractor but didn't find many and those had retained significant value. What I finally bought was a new but discontinued model tractor for a steep discount that put it at or below the used prices, but still had the factory 3-year warranty and 3-year 0% financing.

You may not be able to do that exact thing, but I guess what I'm saying is that with the brand-name tractors you may find it is fairly economical to buy new when you consider warranties, dealer financing, and the high used market where you are. In Texas, you will not have to pay sales tax on a new tractor either.

Good luck with your decision.

Pete

txdon · Feb 12, 2005

jwk, GET THE FEL!!

From your list I see you can use it for every one of the to do items on your list.

With your soggy gulf coast land you will use the FEL to push yourself out when you get stuck.

You will use it to push gravel and back drag to smooth the driveway.

With a tooth bar you will use you FEL to clear brush and remove small trees. It's so easy.

You can use the FEL when lawn grading.

There are about 101 uses for the FEL in regular maintenance.

Now can I convince you need HST?

Sneaky Pete please expand on your statement - "In Texas, you will not have to pay sales tax on a new tractor either."
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

jwk · Feb 12, 2005

OK, I think I'm convinced I need the loader. Now txdon mentions HST... I was thinking I don't need it, just stay with shifting gears. But I don't know what HST buys you. What are the pros/cons of HST?

sneaky_pete · Feb 13, 2005

( Sneaky Pete please expand on your statement - "In Texas, you will not have to pay sales tax on a new tractor either."
/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif )

In the two counties/four dealers/three colors I have bought tractors, implements, and parts in, every transaction was written up by the vendor as a farm (non-taxed) purchase without even asking me about it. I asked the dealer the first time (when I was buying a tractor) and he said you didn't have to have an ag exemption on your land to get the farm tax exemption on equipment. Whether he was right or not I don't know, but no one I know in these parts pays sales tax on tractor stuff. If I was ever audited I might have a hard time showing that my wife's egg production or my tree plantings constitute a "farm", but I would try! My philosophy on tax matters is to aggressively interpret the law in my favor when there is any gray area, and let the IRS show me the error of my ways after the fact if they care to. They haven't yet. As I have previously said in other threads on taxes, the use of a qualified CPA who understands self-employment and small corporations is HIGHLY recommended.

This is my experience only; your mileage may vary...

rpeter · Feb 13, 2005

The IRS definition of a tree farm is any planting of over one acre. As long as you have planted new trees and they are growing you do not need to show a profit to be considered in the tree farming business. You can also deduct equipment as an expense, like the shinny new tractor!!

PS… I am a CPA
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

sneaky_pete · Feb 13, 2005

Thanks Ron, that is good to know. By the time I get audited, I might be up to a whole (additional) acre!

txdon · Feb 13, 2005

"What are the pros/cons of HST?" -jwk 

Oh no /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I'm being sucked into a never ending HST/Gear debate. Well.... I encourage you to use the search to find the many post dedicated to the debate.

I find the HST most useful when doing loader work, clearing brush, and mowing. I know in Sugarland Texas you have no hills so safety on hills is not one of your concerns, but do you have dams or berms?

With HST you can go extremely slow without riding the clutch. This is very helpful when digging up shrubs and pushing over small trees.

When moving and going around corners you can slow down without shifting or slowing the RPM of the mower down.
HST has a cruise control so you do not need to keep your foot on the pedal.

Safety - In a panic situation you can do one of two things push in the clutch (HST has a clutch to change ranges) or just let off the pedal and the tractor will stop. I consider the extremely slow speed that can be obtained with HST a safety feature also.

I encourage you to test drive one while operating the FEL - it is so much easier.

All of the other tractors I have operated have been geared. I will always choose HST for compact tractor work.

The cons - $ and uses a few of your HP.
The biggest pro - makes tractor operating fun! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

JDFANATIC · Feb 13, 2005

Guys,

I think your into the "discretion is the better part of valor" area. Be careful who may be monitoring this forum! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Varmintmist · Feb 14, 2005

Hold up. A tree farm needs 15 ac to start for hardwoods according to my forester. Things may have changed. Christmas trees you could probably do on a acre. Before I started writing my taxes as a treefarm I had to find out what it was.

You need :
A. the acreage.
B. a forest management plan
C. time, ability, equipment to work on the plan

http://www.treefarmsystem.org/cms/pages/20_5.html

It isnt like hoeing corn, but you dont get to sit on your butt

sneaky_pete · Feb 14, 2005

( I think your into the "discretion is the better part of valor" area. Be careful who may be monitoring this forum! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif )

I'd be surprised if anyone could figure out my name or address from my profile, but even so I don't do anything intentionally illegal - as I said, my CPA and I aggressively interpret the tax code for my benefit as much as possible. This is not against the law, and they are welcome to audit me any time (I never have been yet).

rpeter · Feb 14, 2005

You are right Varmintmist, you do need a forestry management plan to file with your schedule T. You also need to up date it every year. It is also important to develop your basis in the existing trees (I am letting the forester do that). I will eventually have over 15 acres in hardwoods. However, the IRS rules say that I only need ONE acre in REFORESTED land in order to qualify as a tree farm. Them are the rules and yes I am a CPA.

rpeter · Feb 14, 2005

I am sorry I should have posted this with my previous post.

timber tax

It is the URL of the “National Timber Tax Website”. These people know the timber tax law better than most of the IRS agents. In the entire Northeast – Mid-Atlantic district there is one IRS agent in New York state that is an expert on timber tax law. All of the rest have to go to him to get advice, etc.

JDFANATIC · Feb 14, 2005

Sneaky Pete,

I'm sure you're doing everything exactly by the book; still I hope you're right... /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif