What was Kubota thinking?

[Raddad]

I think for my uses Kubota made a good decision. I could brake steer my B7100 and it tore up the grass or garden allot whenever I used it. When rototilling the front wheels would plow a big rut in the garden even if you lift the tiller when you hit the brake. If you forget to lock the brakes together the next time you hit the brakes you will be in for one heck of a scare. If you're going to use brake steer be very carefull. I almost fliped my tractor over while driving to my barn. That's the last time I played with brake steer. I also never figured out how to reach down and engage or disengage the two peddels while driving. I learned to adjust my pattern so I don't need to make such sharp turns. I can also stop on a hill and engage and disengage the mower with them on opposite sides. In an emergency my instinct would be to hit the brakes with my right foot anyway sence it's the same as my truck.

I do use my diferential lock and I'm glad it's on the left on my new B7610 and direction control on the right. I like the foot opperated clutch on the left, because I can stop the impliment and the tractor in a hurry if I hit something with the tiller.

 

[SPYDERLK]

timber, they may not be steering brakes but your description of their use is for a steering function. They are certainly quite valuable as an aid for steering and quick turning when the rears are wide set. Also to shift power to the wheel with better traction as you describe. Diff lock gives another way to optimize traction if equipped. I have always wished the brake set would engage both pedals so they could be left independent and still give a good parking brake.
larry

 

[Bob_Young]

I used to brake-steer with the old 2WD Ford 4000 and JD40 all the time. It was needed on those old beasts. Front end a bit light and no assist from FWD. Doing a 180 with one wheel locked was the quickest way to get headed back without a lot of see-sawing around. I agree that it's primarily a requirement for Ag users.

Still, I don't see an issue with setting the cruise on the HST and using the free right foot to help the steering with the brakes. On the B7610, at least, there's still a clutch on the left side (like the Ford), the hand throttle still controls engine & ground speed (like the Ford), and the independent brakes are on the right (like....well, you know).

Brakes on the left would get me into trouble sooner or later, cuz all my old stuff has them on the right. Only other setup I recall was the old JD letter series (A, B, H, etc) that had left brake on the left side of the platform and right brake on the right....with a hand clutch....kewl. There was lots to like with those old ladies.
Bob

 

[bx23barry]

I also think it pretty dumb and almost useless not to mention dangerous to have the hydro and brakes on the same side. I ran cats with the decelerator on the right and steering brakes on the left without any issues switching back and fourth. With gear tractor there is a hand throttle and clutch for speed control when using the (yes they are steering) brakes. With the cruise set there is no speed control when using the steering brakes. That is just dangerous.

 

[Toolguy]

Everything new takes some getting used to. I have a B3030 and find that there is only one reason I would want a brake on the left side. When stopped with the parking brake locked on a downhill slope it is hard to unlock the brakes and start backing up without first going forward a bit. It's not a problem if you are going uphill because you can use the cruise control to start the forward motion as you unlock the brakes. I have learned to avoid getting myself in situations where going forward before backing up is a problem.

The manual cruise control on the B3030 does take some getting used to. However, you can learn to get along with it if you practice using it. Overall it is probably a safer design to have the brakes on the right then on the left because in a panic situation most people instinctivly want to use their right foot to stop with.

As far as why farmers need steering brakes, the best example is when pulling a heavy disc or drag in loose ground with 2WD. The attachment point for the implement needs to be far enough behind the tractor so that the hitch does not contact the rear wheels when turning sharply. The heavy pull on the drawbar that is two to three feet or more behind the axle acts as a lever that wants to keep the tractor going in a straight line. The harder the pull the more it wants to go straight. Turning the wheel alone at the end of field will not do much. The individual brakes are needed to complete the turn. Another thing that was used to help make turning easier is a "swinging drawbar". The attachment point for the drawbar is under the axle or slightly forward of the axle. As the tractor turns the drawbar swings in the direction of the turn eliminating most of the leverage that the drawbar has. This make turning a lot easier and less braking is needed.

Occasionally when plowing it is necessary to use a steering brake but, if the plow is set up properly it won't be needed very often.

 

[Fjord]

Heres one situaton where you might have to use your brakes for steering.
YouTube - Tractor Square Dancing

 

[Stef]

Heres one situaton where you might have to use your brakes for steering.
YouTube - Tractor Square Dancing

Wow, lol it's really cute. I bet they had a lot of fun practicing for a show like that.

 

[john_bud]

In 7 years of Hydrostatic bliss, there haven't been any times where I NEEDED to turn with the brakes. The Kubota turning radius is better than all the old tractors I have used. JD, Ford, AC, Oliver. Those tractors had about 2x improvement in steering when using the brakes. (Like from a 20 acre turn to a 10 acre turn - LOL!!) The Kubota steering improvement is a fractional foot - 8.2 ft radius with brake and IIRC 8.5 ft without.

As far as being "dangerous", compared to what ? Try using a ford 640. Put it in gear, crank the non-power steering and use the brake to spin it around faster. Turning radius is about 10 ft that way. It's in gear, you need to put in the clutch and stomp both brakes to stop. The Kubota, you just hit both brakes and it comes out of Cruise and stops. What speed control? All the mentioned tractors have a throttle. I haven't been able to stop a tractor that is in gear and running with the brake --gotta put in the clutch. Too much power for the brakes to handle.

Some of the lower end tractors have no clutch. That's a bigger deal to me! My reflexes are honed to pop that clutch in at the first hint of a problem. It would be "disturbing" to me to find my left foot denting the floorboard in an emergency....

You want a weird brake set up, try a Ford 9N- Left brake on the left side, right brake on the right side. Clutch on the left side. If your not careful a panic application of the clutch may lead to a sharp left turn...

 

[Volfandt]

I used to use the "steering" brakes on my TE20 to zero turn/hard spin when discing and to cut a tight turn when bush hogging. The TE20 is an old gear tractor and if I were to hit either side brake pedal at full throttle in 2nd gear, I'd definitely be putting myself in a very dangerous position. After one time you learn not to use brake steering at speed in the higher gears......
What I used to do is to slightly throttle down on approach THEN brake steer. Of course this was never a problem when plowing or discing in 1st gear as speed wasn't as issue.

re. steering brakes with an HST. Seems the same should apply, i.e. throttle down before the turn.
Seems to me that setting the HST cruise control is the same as setting the throttle control on a gear tractor, the end result is that you are setting your traveling speed. Set it and forget it until you need to turn.

FYI, my old TE20 had the clutch pedal and left side brake pedal on the left and the "combo" brake pedal and right side brake pedal on the right.
IMHO I just don't see the problem w/Kubota's setup.

 

[OrangeGuy]

Here's an answer I posted in May of 2004...

Kubota putting the individual brakes on the right side of the platform has nothing to do with cost. It's all about safety. Traditionally, the individual brakes, with an interlock mechanism, has always been on the right side of ag tractors. I don't have to use individual brakes very often on my Kubota L3430, but when I do, it's a very similar process to all the ag tractors I've driven. With an ag tractor, you already have chosen a speed (trans in gear) and when you need brake assistance to turn you depress the individual brake pedal to assist in the turn. With my L3430 I do essentially the same, I choose a speed (engage hydrostatic cruise control) and then use the individual brakes to assist in a turn. Should I run into any difficulties, Kubota has a safety mechanism built to stop the tractor (return hydro to neutral) by depressing both brakes. It's a great setup and one I find very comfortable to use.

I might add that if you are turning on an uphill slope and the front end of the tractor is skidding away from you, the tractor is warning you of a dangerous situation. You either need more front end weight or the hill you are on is too steep to safely maneuver.

I not sure on the Kubota B3030 if it has a clutch pedal on the left side, but if it does, it makes it an even safer tractor to operate. Depressing the clutch and the brakes at the same time provide the safest stopping mechanism.

OrangeGuy