What would keep your Grapple out of the FIRE?

[EverythingAttachments]

The debate of JIC fittings vs. pipe thread fittings has been discussed a few times.
We use pipe fittings on all of our Wicked Grapples because they are much stronger and more accessible for customers to buy should a breakdown or mishap occur.

I stumbled across this youtube video that Eric posted a few months ago.

What kept his Wicked Grapple out of the fire???

Here's a look at the two fitting types, side by side. JIC is on the left and pipe thread is on the right.

Center tee:

Connection to hydraulic cylinders:

Here's our exact center configuration for the Wicked Grapples:

Which would you rather have?
Travis

 

[Rustyiron]

I have always used NPT for your stated reasons, but lately have been transitioning to JIC for some use(s). The JIC can eliminate needing a swivel, and also seal up tight & fast in a location that's hard to reach. They are also becoming as common as NPT. I will stay away from hose end 90's, JIC and NPT and use a fitting to turn 90 with either one. There not as flimsey at 1/2" & up, but those 1/4 hose end 90's are very "tender" to say the least. BUT, yes I like pipe threads most of the time for hoses, and who hasn't made a quick weekend TSC run for a off the shelf hose in a pinch.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

i have a wicked root grapple the one thing I don't like is the npt fittings I worked for a utility company for thirty years as a mechanic having a mobile fluid power cert.in my opinion jic are much superior to npt one example when hooking up quick couplings if a pressure build up has occurred its very easy to crack a jic fitting to relieve pressure try to crack a npt fitting jic uses a seat to seal not a taperd wedge like npt fittings just my opinion:cool2:

 

[GreatWhitehunter]

Not sure why you'd think JIC isn't readily available. TSC has decent selection in my area at least.

Matt

 

[Rustyiron]

The (new to the state) TSC's around here are more of a clothing & dog food place than a farm supply like they were when I lived down south. But still handy!

 

[Jim Timber]

This thread's initial post is grasping at straws. Which of these fittings is load rated to suspend 600#? The answer is neither, and doing so was in response to user error (no offense Eric ).

NPT is an old, crude standard meant for low precision applications and aside from a select few exceptions, relies on plastic deformation of the fittings to make the seal. Reusing NPT fittings over time will wear them out, where JIC doesn't suffer the same fate nearly as quickly. ORF would be better yet, as the o-rings are replaceable if they become worn out. ORF also dwarfs the comparable NPT fittings, but you didn't post that up for comparison for obvious reason of negating the desired outcome of making your method appear superior.

EA, you make good products. This is really lame marketing of them.

 

[avc8130]

If you REALLY want to "fix" that issue, a piece of expanded metal welded across the back of the grapple to protect the levers from stick actuation is cheap and lightweight...

I prefer JIC fittings. NPT is a PIA, especially when it comes to elbows.

ac

 

[Rustyiron]

Look's like this one sort of back fired on ya' Trav.
Other than availability in some area's, (or time of day maybe) the above posts are accurate.

 

[Jim Timber]

There's nothing inherently wrong with NPT. It's been around a loooong time, and there's good reason for that. It's easy. Low precision: doesn't take anything but a die to make a male end or a tap to make a female. And it works!

If we had better access to better fittings, I'd be done with NPT. I still use it intentionally in applications which will not see any connection usage outside assembly and repairs - because it's cheap and readily available at the local store. I don't flaunt this as value added though. I have to drive right past a very reasonably priced hydraulics shop to buy hoses at Fleet Farm. If Bob had longer hours, I might skip NPT all together.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

In my defense at some point something I picked up kicked my single lever SSQA out of its locked position and I happened to have my camera running when the grapple dropped.

EA uses Parker hoses and components, which along with Eaton, are top drawer.

I have since welded in a heavy wire mesh onto my Wicked Root Grapple in order to guard the single SSQA lever from getting tripped by debris as well as added in a safety latch to hold the lever in the locked position as the entire lever vanishes from view below the hood line of any tractor and I frequently work in the dead of night.

As always,

 

[Jim Timber]

I didn't know that's all that held your buckets on. Yikes.

My SSQA takes a healthy tug to get both levers to come up, and they're completely independent. I figured you just hadn't hooked it solid to begin with. :drink: Looks like the little hook strap is a good back-up.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I didn't know that's all that held your buckets on. Yikes.

My SSQA takes a healthy tug to get both levers to come up, and they're completely independent. I figured you just hadn't hooked it solid to begin with. :drink: Looks like the little hook strap is a good back-up.

With 40 hours of grapple work from just last week alone running burn piles, I estimate about 70 hours of grapple work since I welded in the expanded metal backing to protect the SSQA release lever from getting triggered. Even with the expanded metal welded in, this photo shows how often that area gets something poked through as I work.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Dude Eric! I'm guessing you don't frequent many china shops! :cow::alert::laughing:

Don't get me wrong. I think it's awesome!

 

[Coyote machine]

Amazingly, from what I can determine, your SSQA lever assembly is less beefy that the one on my DK-40 series Kioti. That is wierd, if true, because of the larger loader, attachments, etc. you use on the NX Series machine.
And I've had the exact same problem of the lever being tripped, though not to the point of releasing it's implement, fortunately. I think you'd be better served using the next larger size expanded metal on your grapple, and on your brushbar, if you have one, as I have done on both my grapple and brushbar; so far, nothing has gotten past either.
Sometimes I have the loader and whatever attachment lifted fully, essentially over my head, where if anything were to release, it could be a deadly outcome. Initially I used one of your favorite in field repairs, a bungee cord, then switched to a looped section of rope that I wind around the crossbar support and make hold the handle in fully closed position. I've also made up small signs to place on the crossbar of my grapple, bucket, tree shear, to remind me to ALWAYS close and secure the SSQA handle. This I did because I realized I'd lifted my log grapple over my head one time recently, and had not locked the lever. Scared me pooless thinking about what could have occurred.
It only takes once for a very bad outcome. I agree 100% that the SSQA lock/release lever is virtually unable to be seen from the tractor seat, probably more so in a cabbed model.

BTW, I like your strap and clip for the handle on the SSQA, though it might cause some issues getting it undone in frigid temps.

Fittings wise I have what came on the Kioti, mostly metal tubing with NPT, and then hoses with JIC, I believe. Each has it's benefits/flaws. IMHO. Things will get broken no matter what one chooses, that's just the way things go when working machines and getting things done.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

Dude Eric! I'm guessing you don't frequent many china shops! :cow::alert::laughing:

Don't get me wrong. I think it's awesome!

It is pretty easy to do if you think about it. I'm coming into a pile of logs rolling up, or from the top down and debris pops through grapple tines.

 

[Luke'sScreenName]

Ya, I can definitely see that.

 

[4570Man]

I put my bucket on to haul some decking scraps to the brush pile. I didn't latch the bucket because a planned on doing that when I got off to load the scraps. I got off and loaded the scraps and headed to the brush pile. I dumped the load on the lucky not lit pile and my bucket fell off. Duh, I forgot to latch it.

 

[MinnesotaEric]

I put my bucket on to haul some decking scraps to the brush pile. I didn't latch the bucket because a planned on doing that when I got off to load the scraps. I got off and loaded the scraps and headed to the brush pile. I dumped the load on the lucky not lit pile and my bucket fell off. Duh, I forgot to latch it.

I've never once forgotten to latch my SSQA, but I have had my SSQA get unlatched twice by debris.

 

[4570Man]

I've never once forgotten to latch my SSQA, but I have had my SSQA get unlatched twice by debris.

Karma will catch up with you. I have also had them unlatched.

 

[Silvic]

The debate of JIC fittings vs. pipe thread fittings has been discussed a few times.
We use pipe fittings on all of our Wicked Grapples because they are much stronger and more accessible for customers to buy should a breakdown or mishap occur.
.....snip.....
Which would you rather have?[/SIZE]
Travis

Look's like this one sort of back fired on ya' Trav.
Other than availability in some area's, (or time of day maybe) the above posts are accurate.

A properly sized fitting I will always chose to go with ANYTHING BUT NPT.

They are an inexpensive (read cheap) fitting that was the best there was with the technology available decades back.
Today the options that are available far surpass both in strength and user friendliness the old NPT.
Yes the fitting are cheap, the hose ends are cheap and thus they are readily available at most farm and ranch store.
Yes the older equipment designs used NPT (see above) but their time is in the past.
Look at the newer equipment. I recently got a Terex loader and there is not one (that I can find) NPT on it.
My Fecon mulcher has no NPT (that I can find) on it. Want to address a piece of equipment that is subject to shock loads and vibration?
My 2007 JD has no NPT (that I have found yet on it in over 8 years of use.)

As was posted, the ORB and ORFS fittings are the fittings of the future. Yes they cost a little more than the NPT but not much and are far superior in every way. There is a reason that most modern equipment manufacturer's have switched away from NPT. JIC fittings are also good.

To chose an undersized JIC for comparison is a cheap marketing trick that is beneath EA. Also use a JIC elbow not a hose end fitting to do the picture comparison if you want compare it to an NPT elbow.

I know EA is not known for "heavy duty" equipment as they specifically cater to the small CUT and SCUT market in general (not in all cases but in general) and thus their light and medium duty stuff is a fantastic value. I do know that I looked at a couple of their pieces and found that they did not meet the needs/ratings of my CUT but it is at the big end of the CUT spectrum. If I had a smaller machine I would definitely look at their stuff. But this NPT is superior &@%@ is just that.

For those that say "on the weekend I only have access to the NPT hoses in the TSC and farm and ranch stores if something breaks." If that is true get a couple of NPT to JIC/ORB/ORFS or whatever straight fittings and you can survive the weekend and still have the best easy to use fittings on your machines 99% of the time.
Would I go out and replace every NPT fitting I had. NO WAY.
But I would, whenever I had to replace something, replace it with something else. But that is me.


OK Travis: EA makes a business/financial decision as to which fitting to put on their equipment (over the long haul with your sales volume it may amount to a lot of money), that is fine but don't put lipstick on the bloody pig. They are not a superior fitting in any way.