What's Happening with Gasoline Prices

[Scooby074]

Scooby074 and anyone else with the same thoughts, please keep in mind when you think it isn't right for the oil companies to be making a profit during bad economic times; profits = jobs, exploration and expansion.

0 profits = layoffs, firings and shutting down operations which then = no fuel at the pumps which = this thread shutting down.
Or the worse case scenario, government take over of the oil industry.

Sorry, but im not going to cry for the oil companies. Exxon has made the HIGHEST US corporate profit in history. The other oil companies are right up there too.

I understand exploration costs money, i have friends in the oil patch, but even with exploration and manufacturing costs, the oil cos are still hugely profitable.

Remember what were paying up here $3.62 US/gal way more then you guys are. But even at that price, were much cheaper than europe.

And i wonder why the oil cos are against electric or fuel efficient cars....

 

[RobJ]

Originally Posted by charlz
Yep, end of the 'summer driving season' ... gas prices will drop for a little while as demand drops off.... then they switch from making gasoline to making heating oil and diesel... then the gas prices will go back up for winter as less gas is refined and stocks are 'low'.

It may work that way in Idaho but in Louisiana where many of the refineries are, they continue making gas during the winter driving gas prices down but stop making diesel in a few refineries and instead make heating oil and this drives the price of diesel up

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I doubt this since in general many if not most refineries have more than likely completed switching over to just one fuel for everythinhg during the last 2 or 3 years. .

I'm not sure what you mean by just one fuel. When you squeeze a lemon, you get lemon juice, when you heat crude oil, you get light stuff, petroleum gas on the top which is converted to LPG, to ATB's, or heavy tower bottoms that will harden at room temp. You can't NOT make the stuff in between, it's what you get. Like the lemon, you can get water from the process, but you can't get orange juice. Heating oil and diesel are the same thing coming off the tower. But these days the diesel coming off the tower must be treated with a hydro-treater to remove the sulphur...IE ULSD diesel. True some refinerys changed over to produce more low sulphur diesel because the demand was up. Some refinerys still sell high sulphur diesel for marine/off road use.

Now gas is a different story, you can make gas or not make gas. Gasoline starts out as naphtha off the tower, its a lighter product. It must be sent through a reformer (special unit), where some things are added to get the octane up. I'm not totally familiar with the gasoline making process. But naphtha is used to make many other products besides gasoline.

If I recall the US is the largest user of gasoline. Other country use a lot more diesel...which is another topic!

 

[Ductape]

The govt actually publishes the real unemployment number, its just buried under the headline number.

Called the U-6, and its up over 16%.

Can you elaborate on this one?

 

[EddieWalker]

Read this article and see if it explains the difference in numbers.

Real US unemployment rate at 16 pct: Fed official

Eddie

 

[dmccarty]

Diesel prices in my area have been around $2.50 most of the summer. I think I paid as low as $2.45ish and I saw the price go into $2.6x.

The Wall Street Journal had an article yesterday regarding solar power. There have been stories for the last few months about the falling price of solar cells because of falling demand and over supply. One of the reasons for this is that Spain has lowered the tax rebates on the systems and Spain was a big installer. I looked at installed cost per watt a few months back and it was $8/9. The WSJ said the installed cost should be down to $6 a watt.

Most systems install 4/5,000 watts. So at $6 a watt that is $30,000! NC pays 35% of the cost with some cavets. The Feds pay 30%. That would leave me paying $10,500. OUCH! But it would be more than that initially due to how NC limits payments. It might take 5 years to get the full 35% back.

Same paper had another article about Nukes. The price of Nukes was about twice as much for the same amount of power for a coal powered plant. Two-three times as much as a gas fired plant. The Nuke power industry is working on getting the costs down but they have a long way to go.

Yet another article was about how many birds are killed by windmills. It is only a matter of time before the companies using windmills to produce power are sued. The story documented how Exxon was sued for bird deaths but that the windmills in some areas kill just as many but nothing has been done about it. Exxon has stopped killing eagles and birds but the green power still does every day.

Best I can tell Exxon has a 35% profit margin. Not bad but not huge. They make loads of money because they sell loads of product. Simple X * Y = Z. Some software businesses have profit margins around 85%.

Later,
Dan

 

[Charlesaf3]

Eddies article is good, though I think it skips the people who have gotten frustrated and given up looking for work, who are also in U-6.

U-6 used to be the headline number. THat was changed in 1994 I think. So if you want to compare unemployment now to unemployment before that date you have to use U-6. You thus get a lot of "its not as bad now as 81" or such that isn't accurate, as they are comparing to different data sets.

 

[LBrown59]

in Louisiana where many of the refineries are, they continue making gas during the winter driving gas prices down but stop making diesel in a few refineries and instead make heating oil and this drives the price of diesel up
1*Why would they make heating oil all year long? More cars driving in the summer and people using heating oil in the winter is fact, not speculation.

2*I guess our refineries in Louisiana are more behind the times

3*Heating oil and diesel are the same thing coming off the tower.
4*But these days the diesel coming off the tower must be treated with a hydro-treater to remove the sulphur...IE ULSD diesel.
5*True some refinerys changed over to produce more low sulphur diesel because the demand was up.

1*Because people still need fuel for diesel engines in winter and summer both.
2*Couldn't say .
3*They are also the same thing going into peoples Diesel engines and home furnaces here.
4*I think we aren't far from the point of it all being ULSD diesel if we aren't there already!
5* I'd say many if not most of them simply went to ULSD calling it various things such as on road off road home heating oil fuel oil diesel for the different uses/applications.

 

[tallyho8]

LB
Since you think that diesel and heating oil are the exact same thing, perhaps reading this article would better inform you. Diesel versus Heating Fuel for your generator

 

[RobJ]

1*Because people still need fuel for diesel engines in winter and summer both.
2*Couldn't say .
3*They are also the same thing going into peoples Diesel engines and home furnaces here.
4*I think we aren't far from the point of it all being ULSD diesel if we aren't there already!
5* I'd say many if not most of them simply went to ULSD calling it various things such as on road off road home heating oil fuel oil diesel for the different uses/applications.

#1, in addition diesel is exported to some degree

#5, I believe by the year 2012 all refinerys have to put out ulsd only. IF they didn't have to, they wouldn't. It's an expensive process to set up, you either have to purchase or make the hydrogen, then you have to get rid of the mountain of sulphur.

 

[RobJ]

LB
Since you think that diesel and heating oil are the exact same thing, perhaps reading this article would better inform you. Diesel versus Heating Fuel for your generator

From what I read, the atricle states they are the same. But the supplier might pull an old bait and switch to make more money.

Products are judged by API specs, if a supplier mixes in some #6 oil, you are not at spec anymore. Your ROBBED!!